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Church-State Relations and the Book of Revelation
An Introduction to The Parousia: A Careful Look at the New Testament Doctrine of the Lord's Second Coming
by James Stuart Russell (1878) // Written by
Todd Dennis, Curator

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  History: The Pretribulational Parousia of Margaret Macdonald

By Ed Tarkowski

33 A.D.: The Established Parousia

Just before going to the cross, Jesus gave a very dramatic description of His second coming (parousia - Greek: coming). He left no room for doubt that His parousia would be universal, visible and after the Tribulation:

3: And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?(Matt. 24)

27: [Jesus said,] For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. . . . 29: Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30: And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31: And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other (Matt. 24)

37: But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. . . . 39: And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be (Matt. 24).

It is significant that, in speaking to the first members of His Church who would be passing down His words, Jesus mentioned no other return, such as a secret or invisible parousia. And after He died, rose and returned to His Father, the Holy Spirit inspired none of the New Testament writers to make any just-as-specific changes or additions to Jesus' own description of His parousia.

1830: The Deceptive Seed Of A New Parousia

In A Guide to Biblical Prophecy: A Balanced and Biblical Assessment of the Nature of Prophecy in the Bible (1989), editors Carl E. Armerding and W. Ward Gasque give a detailed history of the origins of various beliefs, including that of a pretribulational secret coming:

"The origin of this idea has been debated often. Some have asserted that they have seen glimpses of this viewpoint in the reports of the Albury Conferences, known as the Dialogues of Prophecy, whereas others have attributed it to Edward Irving and his most immediate circle. Only recently there has been another full-scale attempt to discover the origin of this idea. Dave MacPherson . . . published a book in 1973 called The Unbelievable PreTrib Origin. Quoting from certain long-forgotten productions of the Catholic Apostolic Church, he insists that the secret rapture was clearly enunciated first among those who received the charismatic gifts at Port Glasgow, Scotland, in the spring of 1830. Margaret Macdonald, just fifteen years of age, received the spirit of prophecy, and among her utterances was one that distinguished between the second phase of Christ's coming, which would be public, and the first, which would be secret and hidden, observed only by believers, and which would raise them to be with Christ. It is doubtful that Margaret Macdonald was the first person to broach such an idea, and it is also doubtful that her presentation was as clear as MacPherson suggests" (p. 52).

Whether or not Margaret Macdonald was the single origin, many have documented the 1830's as the time when the concept of a secret coming (parousia) by Jesus was originated. The idea of a secret coming was unheard of before the nineteenth century. The 1830 vision of Christ's return was apparently meant for Macdonald's own time, since she also named the Antichrist. - Robert Owen (1771-1858). But her prophecy of the antichrist's identity didn't come true. God's word is very clear when such things happen:

"You may say to yourselves, 'How can we know when a message has not been spoken by the Lord?' If what a prophet proclaims in the name of the Lord does not take place or come true, that is a message the Lord has not spoken" (Deut. 18:21-22).

Its source, then, had to be either the flesh or a demonic spirit. The purpose of Macdonald's prophecy was to remove the error Jesus had made in describing His visible coming in Matthew 24. In her account of her vision, Macdonald wrote:

". . . . Now there is distress of nations, with perplexity, the seas and the waves roaring, men's hearts failing them for fear - now look out for the sign of the Son of man. Here I was made to stop and cry out, O it is not known what the sign of the Son of man is; the people of God think they are waiting, but they know not what it is. I felt this needed to be revealed, and that there was great darkness and error about it; but suddenly what it was burst upon me with a glorious light. I saw it was just the Lord himself descending from Heaven with a shout, just the glorified man, even Jesus; [here comes the switch from a visible parousia to the secret coming:] but that all must, as Stephen was, be filled with the Holy Ghost, that they might look up, and see the brightness of the Father's glory. I saw the error to be, that men think that it will be something seen by the natural eye; but 'tis spiritual discernment that is needed, the eye of God in his people. . . ." (Dave MacPherson, The Incredible Cover-up, p. 151 citing Robert Norton, Memoirs of James & George Macdonald, of Port-Glasgow [1840], pp. 171-176).

It is Jesus who related to men the description of His visible parousia in Matthew 24, but Macdonald "saw the error to be, that men think that it will be something seen by the natural eye." Fifteen year-old Margaret was deceived by a prophetic lie which pointed to a second parousia and, as a result, to "another Jesus." Furthermore, the "eye of God in his people" which would spiritually discern her invisible Jesus must replace the person of the Holy Spirit. Nowhere in Scripture is the Holy Spirit spoken of in this way. Whatever spirit Macdonald saw as "the eye of God in his people" was mentioned later in her vision when she spoke of the oil in the lamps of the ten virgins:

"'. . . be filled with the Spirit.' This was the oil the wise virgins took in their vessels - this is the light to be kept burning - the light of God - that we may discern that which cometh not with observation to the natural eye. Only those who have the light of God within them will see the sign of his appearance. No need to follow them who say, see here, or see there, for his day shall be as the lightning to those in whom the living Christ is. 'Tis Christ in us that will lift us up - he is the light - 'tis only those that are alive in him that will be caught up to meet him in the air."

Margaret's description of the day of Jesus being like lightning only "to those in whom the living Christ is" certainly contradicts Jesus' saying the nations will mourn when they see Him come. And Macdonald's symbolization of the Holy Spirit as "the eye of God in his people" and "the light to be kept burning - the light of God" resembles the occultic concept of the Third Eye. The Third Eye is said to be located between the two physical eyes and is called the Agni Point, after Lord Agni, the fire god represented by lightning. New Agers believe that through this Point, cosmic fire and light enter the person during meditation and visualization, and bring an inner transformation to initiates and the needed wisdom to understand God's teachings. Such is the flavor of Macdonald's vision.

Further, although Jesus had already given a clear, vivid picture of His future parousia, Margaret "was made to stop and cry out" for an understanding of it. The way the answer came, ("but suddenly what it was burst upon me with a glorious light"), coupled with a message contradicting Jesus' description of His parousia, tends to support the presence of demonic oppression, for occultic revelational knowledge often comes with a sudden burst of light. Since Macdonald's Jesus and Holy Spirit are not those found in Scripture, this strongly suggests that her experience was occultic; it definitely wasn't Christian.

1830-1996: A New Parousia for the Church

In 1830, John Darby, an evangelical clergyman, visited Scotland and personally investigated Macdonald's prophecy:

"It is likely, . . it [Macdonald's prophecy] was grist for Darby's mill. . . . As he left Scotland, he carried with him impressions which, after some years of reflection, would play their part in the formation of the teaching of the secret pretribulation rapture" (Armerding & Gasque, p. 52).

In other words, Darby was influenced by an unscriptural prophetic message given by apparent occult spirits to create a second parousia. Then he gave it to the Church. When publicly presented, was Darby's promotion of the new secret rapture immediately accepted? Armerding and Gasque write,

"In the [Powerscourt] Conference of 1831, . . the secret rapture, in a still somewhat undeveloped form, was also given a considerable measure of acceptance, and in a few months was being taught in the new Brethren assembly in Plymouth. . . . Darby's prophetic views did not enjoy widespread favor at once" (p. 54; italics ours).

This documentation should be enough to cause any Christian to reject the doctrine outright, as well as the other beliefs formed to support it. For instance, because the parousia described by Jesus in Matthew 24 will be visible to all who are on the earth, Darby "drew a rigid separation between Israel and the church" (Armerding & Gasque, p. 52) to support his idea of a pre-trib rapture of the Church:

"An ex-clergyman of the Church of Ireland by the name of Tweedy seems to have played an important part in helping Darby and the Dublin group of Brethren to skirt the posttribulational import of the Olivet Discourse [Matthew 24] by relegating it to a dispensationally Jewish application" (Bob Gundry, The Church and the Tribulation, p. 187 citing R. Cameron, Scriptural Truth About the Lord's Return, pp. 70-72).

So, according to Darby, the only people of God who would live through the Tribulation and witness Jesus' visible coming were the Jews. The Church would have her own second coming, a "first phase" which would take place before the Tribulation. This one would be in secret, taking the Church to heaven until the time came for the Jewish "second phase." But the Holy Spirit never mentioned, or hinted at, such a thing. Every Scripture referring to Jesus' parousia is listed below. Read through them and see for yourself that the only way to get a secret rapture out of any of them is to begin with the belief in Darby's secret parousia. It just isn't there. It must be assumed into a verse.

1 Corinthians 15:23: But every man [will be raised from the dead] in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

1 Thessalonians 2:19: For what is our hope, or joy, or crown of rejoicing? Are not even ye in the presence of our Lord Jesus Christ at his coming?

1 Thessalonians 3:13: To the end he may stablish your hearts unblameable in holiness before God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints.

1 Thessalonians 4:15: . . . we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. . . . 16: the dead in Christ shall rise first.

1 Thessalonians 5:23: And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

2 Thessalonians 2:1: Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, 2: That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. 3: Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

2 Thessalonians 2:8: And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

James 5:7: Be patient therefore, brethren, unto the coming of the Lord. Behold, the husbandman waiteth for the precious fruit of the earth, and hath long patience for it, until he receive the early and latter rain. 8: Be ye also patient; stablish your hearts: for the coming of the Lord draweth nigh.

2 Peter 1:16: For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty.

2 Peter 3:4: And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.

1 John 2:28: And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming.

Before Darby was born, before he picked up a Bible, Jesus' description of His own parousia was the only parousia there was. It was "immediately after the Tribulation" and it was described as visible to the world.

But Darby exalted himself above the One Who is God's faithful and true Witness, the living Word, our Lord Jesus Christ. He added his secret parousia to God's word. In turn, God's word exposes him as a liar:

5: Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him. 6: Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar. (Prov. 30).

Darby's addition also places him under the warnings of Revelation 22:19: "And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book."

Because of Darby's "two phase" parousia, part of the Church is looking for "another Jesus." But we believe his "first-phase coming" is nothing less than a weed planted within the Church 170 years ago in preparation for an endtime deception, one which will fuel the coming apostasy in the segment of the Church trapped by belief in a false parousia.

1996: Is This Deceptive Seed Maturing?

In Jesus' own description of His overwhelmingly visible parousia that occurs "immediately after the Tribulation," He warned of deceit several times,

4: And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you. 5: For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many. (Matt. 24).

10: And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another. 11: And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.(Matt. 24).

24: For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. 25: Behold, I have told you before. 26: Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not. 27: For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. (Matt. 24).

Of special interest is Jesus' statement concerning false prophets in verses 10 and 11, where the prophets instigate an apparently successful apostasy, turning many from the faith. As a result, love among God's people grows cold, and is replaced by hate. Whenever true and deceptive messages are mixed, there is division resulting in apostasy and a change in ultimate vision. All that is needed to start this process is one small change in the truth. The influence of Macdonald's prophetic vision has spawned such a weed through Darby.

The devil's goal is unity in the world and apostasy in the Church for the purpose of leading the Church into that world through spiritual deception. How deep can that deception go? We believe it is this deep: the devil has set up the coming of his false Christ to mimic the parousia anticipated in pretribulationism. Heirs to the belief that only Christians will see Jesus' coming, pre-tribbers are most likely becoming one of the targets for the New Age occult (meaning secret) "leap into the heavens." This satanic, endtime scenario is found in Randall Baer's Inside the New Age Nightmare (pp. 89-92). He was a man who had an indepth knowledge of the New Age, acquired from within. The same occult "myriad shapes and forms" are slipping subtly into the Church today, leading to some form of spiritual experience of "the Christ" in a false parousia. Impossible? As the deception increases, the power to further it increases. Jesus said,

10: And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another. 11: And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.(Matt. 24).

Paul warned the Church against being deceived about when the day of the Lord would arrive, but his words are applicable to any phase of Jesus' return. He wrote,

1: Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, 2: That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. 3: Let no man deceive you by any means: . . . (2 Thess. 2:1-3).

Unfortunately, Christianity now has two major premillenial doctrines of Jesus' return because we let someone deceive us. Thank God that the Church is apparently turning back to what it believed before Darby, but it's taking time because it's difficult for people to admit the deceit. But our attitude should be this: "I don't want my personal cares, my feelings, or my pride to influence what I believe about when Jesus is coming. I just want the truth." (Each Christian is personally responsible to the Lord for what he believes.) The contention in the Church will only increase as the New Age proliferates in the years ahead. We don't have time to continue the secret-coming debate. Bringing millions into the Church isn't enough. These new believers need to be made strong, not thrown into the Church's "great debate." Let's take out the weed sprouts now. Otherwise, the delusion will come to fruition in those who are looking at the wrong period of time for Christ's return. Even so, Come Lord Jesus!

What do YOU think ?

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Date: 10 Nov 2005
Time: 08:10:33


The Father tells us in Ezekiel 13 that He is against the prophets that teach His people to fly like birds to save their souls. We had better beware and know that the fake one comes first and he is going to do miracles that is going to make the people believe that he is the Messiah. We better have our Gospel Armour in place and be prepared to take our stand.

Date: 06 Dec 2005
Time: 04:36:58


Dear Truth Tellers,

This is the best teaching! I left Benny Hinn's
school of Signs and Wonders after one year because
he was more in awe of what was going on in National
Israel and the rebuilding of the temple there after his recent visit than understanding and teaching that the kingdom is within. They were at an officiation where the ark of the covenant was carried and they appeared to be worshipping it and even lifting their hands and speaking tongues over it. I cried out "blasphemy"!, and left when I saw the film of all the duped evangelicals there. All Benny Hinn spoke was that Christ is coming back very soon after the next pope is ushered into office. I am so tired of this false teaching and I pray that this whole diabolical plan of the enemy to destroy God's plan is exposed. Why can't we see the truth by the scriptures Are we so brainwashed?

In Truth,
Camille Chaney

Date: 18 Jan 2006
Time: 14:13:29


Finally, some Christians are finally really reading their Bibles and realizing the false doctrine of the "pre-trib rapture"! That's the first step; If only they would take the even greater step and realize that the apostles never stopped being Jewish and never stopped believing the teachings of the prophets: that God is one single being - the Father of us all and of all things!

Date: 08 Mar 2006
Time: 16:37:14


The idea that pre-tribulationalism began in 1830 with Darby and MacDonald simply isn't true. Peter Jurieu taught that Christ would come in the air to rapture the saints and reutrn to heaven before the battle of Armageddon in his book APPROACHING DELIVERANCE OF THE CHURCH. (1687) Also, an early church father known as "Pseudo-Ephraem" (4th-7th century A.D.) spoke of the saints being removed fromt he earth and taken to be with the Lord prior to the judgements of the tribulation. He taught that there were two distinct comings and that the church was removed before the tribulation. Besides these two early witnesses who actually held to a pre-trib rapture there are many others: Phillip Doddridge (1738), John Gill (1748), James Macknight (1763), and Thomas Scott (1792). All of these are clearly BEFORE 1830 so it would be incorrect to tie the forming of the pretrib rapture to MacDonald and Darby. (who in reality formed his eschatological convictions in 1827)

Date: 02 Jun 2006
Time: 17:18:13


Thank you for pointing out the unbiblical origin of the secret rapture theory. May God continue to abundantly bless your able ministry.

Dennis J. Fischer
Lincoln, Nebraska USA

Date: 05 Jun 2006
Time: 00:31:34


Partial Reply to 08 March 2006 Dispensationalist Nonsense Comment

"For his clincher, having merely rewritten other pretrib works selectively quoting some early Christians, Jeffrey claims that Pierre (whom he calls Peter) Jurieu (1637-1713) taught pretrib. Jurieu's work, according to Jeffrey, spoke of "a kind of a clandestine coming of Christ." Since "clandestine" means "secret," Jeffrey concludes that this Frenchman was teaching a secret, pretrib rapture! But then he quotes Jurieu's explanation that this coming will occur "at the coming of His Kingdom" and says that Jurieu was actually teaching a coming prior to Armageddon. At this point Jeffrey has apparently confused "tribulation" with "Armageddon," even though he has a chart elsewhere showing Armageddon after the tribulation!

>From time to time throughout this century, there have been those who've claimed they've spotted at least a hint of pretrib in some pre-1830 writer. The writers most frequently named include Ribera, Bellarmine, Mede, Bengel, Keach, Gill, Oetinger, and Lacunza.

Whenever one examines the context of these "hints" and also notes that their contemporaries saw nothing significantly new in the same "hints," the conclusion is that a handful of modern writers, for a variety of motives, has simply read into the earlier writers what the modern writers wished to see. We've previously noted that older hymns etc. have even been changed for the same purpose!"

Date: 11 Aug 2006
Time: 05:09:48


There is absolutely no Scriptural foundation for a "Pre Trib Rapture" - it's just not there. I did an in-depth study for 40 days several years ago & I wish I could find the timeline I drew out, but it's buried in my (voluminous) files somewhere.

But one thing that came from the study is that there is ONLY one time that a "rapture" can possibly happen - right in the middle of the two 3 1/2 year tribulation periods. It would take me hours to go thru it all here so I won't, but I will point out a few things, starting with Matthew 24 (New American Standard Bible):

21 for then there will be a great tribulation, such as has not occurred since the beginning of the world until now, nor ever shall.
22 And unless those days had been cut short, no life would have been saved; but for the sake of the elect those days shall be cut short.

29 But immediately after the tribulation of those days THE SUN WILL BE DARKENED, AND THE MOON WILL NOT GIVE ITS LIGHT, AND THE STARS WILL FALL from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken,
30 and then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the SON OF MAN COMING ON THE CLOUDS OF THE SKY with power and great glory.

What's taken out of context are following verses:

31 And He will send forth His angels with A GREAT TRUMPET and THEY WILL GATHER TOGETHER His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other.

38 For as in those days which were before the flood they were eating and drinking, they were marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark,
39 and they did not understand until the flood came and took them all away; so shall the coming of the Son of Man be.
40 Then there shall be two men in the field; one will be taken, and one will be left.
41 Two women will be grinding at the mill; one will be taken, and one will be left.

There is NOTHING which says that will happen BEFORE the Tribulation begins & in fact, Y'Shuah says just the opposite - " ...for the sake of the elect those days shall be cut short" & "...immediately after the tribulation of those days..."

He also says that, "He will send forth His angels with A GREAT TRUMPET..." What is that great trumpet? It's the last trumpet. I Corinthians:

15:52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet; for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed.

When does that last trumpet sound? Revelation 6:

6 And the seven angels who had the seven trumpets prepared themselves to sound them.
7 And the first sounded, and there came hail and fire, mixed with blood, and they were thrown to the earth; and a third of the earth was burned up, and a third of the trees were burned up, and all the green grass was burned up.
8 And the second angel sounded, and something like a great mountain burning with fire was thrown into the sea; and a third of the sea became blood;
9 and a third of the creatures, which were in the sea and had life, died; and a third of the ships were destroyed.
10 And the third angel sounded, and a great star fell from heaven, burning like a torch, and it fell on a third of the rivers and on the springs of waters;
11 and the name of the star is called Wormwood; and a third of the waters became wormwood; and many men died from the waters, because they were made bitter.
12 And the fourth angel sounded, and a third of the sun and a third of the moon and a third of the stars were smitten, so that a third of them might be darkened and the day might not shine for a third of it, and the night in the same way.
13 And I looked, and I heard an eagle flying in midheaven, saying with a loud voice, "Woe, woe, woe, to those who dwell on the earth, because of the remaining blasts of the trumpet of the three angels who are about to sound!"

Revelation 9:

12 The first woe is past; behold, two woes are still coming after these things.
13 And the sixth angel sounded, and I heard a voice from the four horns of the golden altar which is before God,
14 one saying to the sixth angel who had the trumpet, "Release the four angels who are bound at the great river Euphrates."

Revelation 10:

1 And I saw another strong angel coming down out of heaven, clothed with a cloud; and the rainbow was upon his head, and his face was like the sun, and his feet like pillars of fire;
2 and he had in his hand a little book which was open. And he placed his right foot on the sea and his left on the land;
3 and he cried out with a loud voice, as when a lion roars; and when he had cried out, the seven peals of thunder uttered their voices.
4 And when the seven peals of thunder had spoken, I was about to write; and I heard a voice from heaven saying, "Seal up the things which the seven peals of thunder have spoken, and do not write them."
5 And the angel whom I saw standing on the sea and on the land lifted up his right hand to heaven,
6 and swore by Him who lives forever and ever, WHO CREATED HEAVEN AND THE THINGS IN IT, AND THE EARTH AND THE THINGS IN IT, AND THE SEA AND THE THINGS IN IT, that there shall be delay no longer,
7 but in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he is about to sound, then the mystery of God is finished, as He preached to His servants the prophets.

The above also ties in with I Thessalonians 4, which is one of the sections the "Pre Trib" folks use:

13 But we do not want you to be uninformed, brethren, about those who are asleep, that you may not grieve, as do the rest who have no hope.
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who have fallen asleep in Jesus.
15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive, and remain until the coming of the Lord, shall not precede those who have fallen asleep.
16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trumpet of God; and the dead in Christ shall rise first.
17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and thus we shall always be with the Lord.

Those verses don't say anything about that happening *before* the Tribulation begins, do they? No - they speak of the voice of the archangel and the trumpet of God, just as other verses quoted above do.

You also have to look @ the Book of Daniel, as he covers much of the same time period & is more specific about the length of the 2 Tribulation periods. I believe you'll find that a very thorough study will reveal that there is no such thing as a "Pre Trib Rapture".

Date: 31 Jan 2010
Time: 01:44:37

Your Comments:

I'm searching for the actual full text of the M.M. Prophecy on any non pre-trib website. You only quote a selective part of the prophecy which does not even mention the pre-trib rapture so your allegations lack evidence. You need to be careful as you could be guilty of slander.

I did find it on Wikipedia and a MacPherson fan just said "oh anyone can make stuff up and put it on Wikipedia so it's not reliable". However he did not offer to show the original prophecy or other documentation to validate MacPherson's point and simply wanted to dismiss facts and rely on MacPherson's own words. Hardly convincing.

Date: 26 Sep 2010
Time: 17:40:31

Your Comments:

Praise the name of Yeshua, for by him in him and through him we shall know our Living Father. Give him honour, glory, praise, and strength. He is the revealer of the truth. The beleivers know and hear his voice and follow after him. Thanks and praise belong to him over the enlightenment.
shabbat shalom a follower of the truth


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