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FIGHTING FOR SUPREMACY:
Dr. Martyn Lloyd-Jones "Christ is fulfilling the law on the cross, and unless you interpret the cross, and Christ's death upon it, in strict terms of the fulfilling of the law you have not the scriptural view of the death upon the cross." (Studies in the Sermon on the Mount, p. 168)
is no exaggeration to say that the Fall of Jerusalem is the most significant
national event in the history of the world."
"I am entering on the history of a period rich in disasters, frightful in its wars, torn by civil strife, and even in peace full of horrors. Four emperors perished by the sword. There were three civil wars; there were more with foreign enemies; there were often wars that had both characters at once. There was success in the East, and disaster in the West.." Tacitus' "Histories" (I.2)
"From a strictly religious point of view, the destruction of the Second Temple marked the beginning of a new era without Temple sacrifices, an era that continues to this day." (Cultures of the Jews: A New History, p. 305)
and Jacques Lebar (1970)
Eric M.Meyers (2003)
"The destruction of the Temple necessarily had cataclysmic political and religious consequences. Because the Temple had functioned as a political and well as cultic center, its loss left a vacuum into which the rabbis would move."
"The destruction of the Second Temple in 70 C.E. constitutes, in most analyses, a watershed event for the Jews of antiquity. The elimination of the center, source of spiritual nourishment and preeminent symbol of the nation's identity, compelled Jews to reinvent themselves, to find other means of religious sustenance, and to adjust their lives to an indefinite period of displacement." (Cultures of the Jews: A New History, p. 117)
"The loss of the Jerusalem Temple also meant that the Jewish religion had to transform itself from a Temple-based, sacrificial cult to a culture rooted in domestic and local practices." (Cultures of the Jews: A New History, p. 163)
"The possibility that certain books might not be included in the canon and the institution of a category of "external books" (sefarim hitzonim) were the product of the rabbinic belief that prophecy had ceased with the destruction of the Temple." (Cultures of the Jews: A New History, p. 167)
"It is, in fact, a sign and notable proof of the coming of the Word that Jerusalem no longer stands"
Then was fulfilled that which was spoken by the prophet: "I will take away from them the voice of joy and the voice of gladness, the voice of the bridegroom and the voice of the bride, the scent of myrrh, and the light of a lamp, and the whole land shall be destroyed" [Jer. 25:10]. For the whole service of the law has been abolished from them, and henceforth and forever they remain without a feast." (St. Athanasius, Letters [vi])
"So the Jews are indulging in fiction, and transferring present time to future. When did prophet and vision cease from Israel? Was it not when Christ came, the Holy One of holies? It is, in fact, a sign and notable proof of the coming of the Word that Jerusalem no longer stands, neither is prophet raised up nor vision revealed among them. And it is natural that it should be so, for when He that was signified had come, what need was there any longer of any to signify Him? And when the Truth had come, what further need was there of the shadow? On His account only they prophesied continually, until such time as Essential Righteousness has come, Who was made the Ransom for the sins of all. For the same reason Jerusalem stood until the same time, in order that there men might premeditate the types before the Truth was known. So, of course, once the Holy One of holies had come, both vision and prophecy were sealed. And the kingdom of Jerusalem ceased at the same time, because kings were to be anointed among them only until the Holy of holies had been anointed. Moses also prophesies that the kingdom of the Jews shall stand until His time, saying, "A ruler shall not fail from Judah nor a prince from his loins, until the things laid up for him shall come and the Expectation of the nations Himself." And that is why the Savior Himself was always proclaiming "The law and the prophets prophesied until John." So if there is still king or prophet or vision among the Jews, they do well to deny that Christ is come; but if there is neither king nor vision, and since that time all prophecy has been sealed and city and temple taken, how can they be so irreligious, how can they so flaunt the facts, as to deny Christ Who has brought it all about?.. What more is there for their Expected One to do when he comes? To call the heathen? But they are called already. To put an end to prophet and king and vision? But this too has already happened. To expose the Goddenyingness of idols? It is already exposed and condemned. Or to destroy death? It is already destroyed. What then has not come to pass that the Christ must do? What is there left out or unfulfilled that the Jews should disbelieve so light-heartedly? The plain fact is, as I say, that there is no longer any king or prophet nor Jerusalem nor sacrifice nor vision among them; yet the whole earth is filled with the knowledge of God, and the Gentiles, forsaking atheism, are now taking refuge with the God of Abraham through the Word, our Lord Jesus Christ. (Incarnation, Ch. VI )
"But of wars in Jerusalem is He speaking; for it is not surely of those without, and everywhere in the world; for what did they care for these? And besides, He would thus say nothing new, if He were speaking of the calamities of the world at large, which are happening always. For before this, were wars, and tumults, and fightings; but He speaks of the Jewish wars coming upon them at no great distance, for henceforth the Roman arms were a matter of anxiety. Since then these things also were sufficient to confound them, He foretells them all.
Therefore He saith, they shall come not by themselves or at once, but with signs. For that the Jews may not say, that they who then believed were the authors of these evils, therefore hath He told them also of the cause of their coming upon them. "For verily I say unto you," He said before, "all these things shall come upon this generation," having made mention of the stain of blood on them. " (Homilies)
"It is fitting to add to these accounts the true prediction of our Saviour in which he foretold these very events. His words are as follows: "Woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days! But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the Sabbath day; For there shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be." The historian, reckoning the whole number of the slain, says that eleven hundred thousand persons perished by famine and sword, and that the rest of the rioters and robbers, being betrayed by each other after the taking of the city, were slain. But the tallest of the youths and those that were distinguished for beauty were preserved for the triumph. Of the rest of the multitude, those that were over seventeen years of age were sent as prisoners to labor in the works of Egypt, while still more were scattered through the provinces to meet their death in the theaters by the sword and by beasts. Those under seventeen years of age were carried away to be sold as slaves, and of these alone the number reached ninety thousand. These things took place in this manner in the second year of the reign of Vespasian, in accordance with the prophecies of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, who by divine power saw them beforehand as if they were already present, and wept and mourned according to the statement of the holy evangelists, who give the very words which be uttered, when, as if addressing Jerusalem herself, he said: "If thou hadst known, even thou, in this day, the things which belong unto thy peace! But now they are hid from thine eyes. For the days shall come upon thee, that thine enemies shall cast a rampart about thee, and compass thee round, and keep thee in on every side, and shall lay thee and thy children even with the ground." And then, as if speaking concerning the people, he says, "For there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people. And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations. And Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled." And again: "When ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh." (Book III, Ch. VII)
"And the people of the governor that cometh will destroy the city and the holy place." Meaning that the city and the Holy Place arc not only to be ruined by the leader to come, whom I have identified in my interpretation, but also by his people. And you would not be far wrong in saying, too, that the Roman general and his army arc meant by the words before us, where I think the camps of the Roman rulers are meant, who governed the nation from that time, and who destroyed the city of Jerusalem itself, and its ancient venerable Temple. For they were cut off by them as by a flood, and were at once involved in destruction until the war was concluded, so that the prophecy was fulfilled and they suffered utter desolation (400) after their plot against our Saviour, which was followed by their extreme sufferings during the siege. You will find an accurate account of it in the history of Josephus." (Demonstratio Evangelica; BOOK VIII)
Hippolytus of Rome (3rd
Lactantius (3rd Century)
"Also Zechariah says: "And they shall look on me whom they pierced." Amos thus speaks of the obscuring of the sun: "In that day, saith the Lord, the sun shall go down at noon, and the clear day shall be dark; and I will turn your feasts into mourning, and your songs into lamentation." Jeremiah also speaks of the city of Jerusalem, in which He suffered: "Her sun is gone down while it was yet day; she hath been confounded and reviled, and the residue of them will I deliver to the sword." Nor were these things spoken in vain. For after a short time the Emperor Vespasian subdued the Jews, and laid waste their lands with the sword and fire, besieged and reduced them by famine, overthrew Jerusalem, led the captives in triumph, and prohibited the others who were left from ever returning to their native land. And these things were done by God on account of that crucifixion of Christ, as He before declared this to Solomon in their Scriptures, saying, "And Israel shall be for perdition and a reproach to the people, and this house shall be desolate; and every one that shall pass by shall be astonished, and shall say, Why hath God done these evils to this land, and to this house? And they shall say, Because they forsook the Lord their God, and persecuted their. King, who was dearly beloved by God, and crucified Him with great degradation, therefore hath God brought upon them these evils." For what would they not deserve who put to death their Lord, who had come for their salvation? (Divine Institutes, Ch. 46)
Origen (2nd Century)
"Therefore, when these times also were completed, and the Jews subdued, there afterwards ceased in that place "libations and sacrifices," which thenceforward have not been able to be in that place celebrated; for "the unction," too,(6) was "exterminated" in that place after the passion of Christ. For it had been predicted that the unction should be exterminated in that place; as in the Psalms it is prophesied, "They exterminated my hands and feet."(7) And the suffering of this "extermination" was perfected within the times of the lxx hebdomads, under Tiberius Caesar, in the consulate of Rubellius Geminus and Fufius Geminus, in the month of March, at the times of the passover, on the eighth day before the calends of April,(8) on the first day of unleavened bread, on which they slew the lamb at even, just as had been enjoined by Moses.(9) Accordingly, all the synagogue of Israel did slay Him, saying to Pilate, when he was desirous to dismiss Him, "His blood be upon us, and upon our children;"(10) and, "If thou dismiss him, thou art not a friend of Caesar;"(11) in order that all things might be fulfilled which had been written of Him." (An Answer to the Jews 8.)
"No matter what view of eschatology we embrace, we must take seriously the redemptive-historical importance of Jerusalem's destruction in A.D.70."
Henry Alford (1868)
David Brown (1858)
Ignaz von Döllinger
"'Tis evident that when Christ speaks of his coming; his being revealed; his coming in his Kingdom; or his Kingdom’s coming; He has respect to his appearing in those great works of his Power Justice and Grace, which should be in the Destruction of Jerusalem and other extraordinary Providences which should attend it." (Miscellany #1199)
"Yet, in the face of all this, we have today a widely held scheme of prophetic interpretation, which has for its very cornerstone the idea that, when God's time to remember His promised mercies to Israel shall at last have come, He will gather them into their ancient land again, only to pour upon them calamities and distresses far exceeding even the horrors which attended the destruction of Jerusalem in A.D. 70. This is, we are convinced, an error of such magnitude as to derange the whole program of unfulfilled prophecy." (Seventy Weeks and the Great Tribulation)
There could not have been a more precise fulfillment of the prophecies of both Daniel and Christ. The city was destroyed and desecrated. Even the stones of the temple were cast down and not one remained upon another." (Armageddon Again? A Reply to Hal Lindsey, Oklahoma City, OK: Author, 1991, p. 47-48)
Philip Schaff (1877)
"A few years afterwards followed the destruction of Jerusalem, which must have made an overpowering impression and broken the last ties which bound Jewish Christianity to the old theocracy. . . .
"The awfiul catastrophe of the destruction of the Jewish theocracy must have produced the profoundest sensation among the Christians. . . . It was the greatest calamity of Judaism and a great benefit to Christianity; a refutation of the one, a vindication . . . of the other. It separated them forever. . . . Henceforth the heathen could no longer look upon Christianity as a mere sect of Judaism, but must regard and treat it as a new, peculiar religion. The destruction of Jerusalem, therefore, marks that momentous crisis at which the Christian church as a whole burst forth forever from the chrysalis of Judaism, awoke to a sense of maturity, and in government and worship at once took its independent stand before the world." (History of the Christian Church, Vol. I, pp. 403-404)
C.H. Spurgeon (1868)
Truly, the blood of the martyrs slain in Jerusalem was amply avenged when the whole city became veritable Aceldama, or field of blood." (Commentary on Matthew, p. 412,413)
John Wesley (1754)
William Whiston (1737)
N.T. Wright (1996)
Bishop Jacques Benigne Bossuet
"Let us remember only what Jesus Christ had foretold them." (Continuity of Religion)
Adam Clarke (1837)
P.S. Desprez (1854)
"NO scriptural statement is capable of more decided proof than that the coming of Christ is the destruction of Jerusalem, and the close of the Jewish dispensation." (The Apocalypse Fulfilled, p.9)
Gary DeMar (1999)
F.W. Farrar (1882)
"It was to this event, the most awful in history - 'one of the most awful eras in God's economy of grace, and the most awful revolution in all God's religious dispensations' - that we must apply those prophecies of Christ's coming in which every one of the Apostles and Evangelists fixed these three most definite limitations - the one, that before that generation passed away all these things would be fulfilled; another, that some standing there should not taste death till they saw the Son of Man coming in His kingdom; and third, that the Apostles should not have gone over the cities of Israel till the Son of Man be come. It is strange that these distinct limitations should not be regarded as a decisive proof that the Fall of Jerusalem was, in the fullest sense, the Second Advent of the Son of Man which was primarily contemplated by the earliest voices of prophecy" (ibid., Vol. 2, p. 489)
"The final collapse of Jerusalem and the Temple.. Through these events the Jews were to "see" the Son of Man in His judgment-coming in terrifying cloud-glory: clouds are symbols of divine majesty often entailing stormy destruction. The members of the Sanhedrin and others would experience such in their life times (Matt. 26:64; Mark 9:1; cf. Rev 1:7 with Rev 1:1,3)." (ibid. 348)
“The nature of the event has to do with a ‘Cloud-Coming’ of Christ. It is necessary here to understand the Old Testament backdrop for a proper comprehension of the matter. The Old Testament frequently uses clouds as indicators of divine judgment.” (Before Jerusalem Fell; Bethesda, MD: Christian University Press, 1997; p. 121)
James Stuart Russell (1878)
R.C. Sproul (1998)
"The coming of Christ in A.D.70 was a coming in judgment on the Jewish nation, indicating the end of the Jewish age and the fulfillment of a day of the Lord. Jesus really did come in judgment at this time, fulfilling his prophecy in the Olivet Discourse." (The Last Days According to Jesus, p. 158)
"The most significant, redemptive, historical action that takes place outside the New Testament, is the judgment that falls on Jerusalem, and by which judgment the Christian Church now emerges as The Body of Christ." (R.C. Sproul, Dust to Glory video series, 1997)
"Russell's book has forced me to take the events surrounding the destruction of jerusalem far more seriously than before, to open my eyes to the radical significance of this event in redemptive history. It vindicates the apostolic hope and prediction of our Lord's close-at-hand coming in judgment. My view on these matters remains in transition, as I have spelled out in The Last Days According to Jesus. But for me one thing is certain: I can never read the New Testament again the same way I read it before reading The Parousia. I hope better scholars than I will continue to analyze and evaluate the content of J. Stuart Russell's important work." ("Forword," in The Parousia (Grand Rapids, MI: Baker Books, 1999)
"..the greatest single event of a thousand years, and religiously significant beyond anything else that ever occurred in human history."
S.G.F. Brandon (1951)
Tony Campolo (1988)
James Burton Coffman (1984)
William Cox (1966)
Dr. Burnett Hillman (1925)
David Hocking (2005)
G.W.H. Lampe (1984)
"From the letter to the Galatians Christians had learned that they were children of the Jerusalem which is ‘above’, the community which, because it enjoys the freedom of the Spirit, stands over against its antithesis, the earthly Jerusalem which is in servitude to the Law (Gal. 4:25–6, cp. Phil. 3:20). The foundations, once again, had been laid for the later development of the theme of the ‘heavenly Jerusalem’ in Hebrews (12:22), the ‘new’ or ‘holy’ Jerusalem which, according to the Revelation of John (3:12; 20:9; 21:2), is to descend from heaven and in which the presence of God will not be focussed or localised in any temple, and for the reinterpretation by the Fourth Evangelist of the idea of a holy place, established by God for worship, in terms of community which worships in the Spirit and truth (John 4:21–3). Paul had already taught that the holy temple of God, indwelt by the Spirit, is the congregation of Christian people, the temple of the living God in which his presence assures the fulfilment of the covenant promise, ‘I will be their God and they shall be my people’ (I Cor. 3:16–17; 2 Cor. 6:16); and Paul had also shown that in a secondary sense each individual believer is the temple of the indwelling Holy Spirit (I Cor. 6:19). In this ark of Christian theology, too, the foundations of later developments, such as the teaching of Eph. 2:21 and I Pet. 2:5, and, through a combination of the themes of the ‘temple of the Spirit’ and the ‘body of Christ’, of John 2:21, had been firmly laid in the years before the Jewish war." ("A.D. 70 in Christian Reflection," Jesus and the Politics of His Day, 156-158.)
Jack P. Lewis (1976)
Jim McGuigan (1991)
A. R. Tippit
David Turner (1989)
WHAT OTHERS HAVE SAID
William Drool Killen
Edgar Allen Poe (1850)
Joseph Wood (1906)
Looks like you put a lot of work into this, I didn't realize that there was this much historical documentation. Thanks for the insight.
Then He said to His disciples, "The time is coming when you will long to see one of the days of the Son of Man, but you will not see it." (Lk. 17.22) The contradiction between this verse and Matt 24, luke 21, matt 16 27&28 mark 9,1 requires interpretation other than what the plain text apears to say to reconcile them. What are the days of the Son of Man? Is it refering to his second advent? If so these verses contradict, unles we remove the time frames of "this generation" or "some standing there would not taste death" or atribute the comming of the Son of Man in his kingdom to something no more than an insignifacant preview such as the transfiguration. I have come to the point of where if truth hinges on speculation or opinion then it is a waste of time. In frustration I am ready to throw it all out. I am weary of arguing with my self over these verses. I would like to say that the days of the Son of Man are different then his comming in his kingdom, but I have no scripture for that so its all a waste of time. Both ends are faulty. My search for truth is fruitless, the promise of seek and you shall find unfulfilled. I shall give up the search before I go mad.
I have NEVER read such poisonous crap in my life!
I have been studying dispensationalism for many years. Though it does open the scriptures in many ways, it also poses many new paradoxes. I have always noted with curiosity the disregard and disinterest given the destruction of the temple in year 70. All through my study this has nagged at me like an itch I can't reach. I intend to spend as much time as is required to come to a full understanding of the preterist position. This site will greatly assist me and I am very greatful to those that have labord to place all this info online at my disposal. Thank you and God bless you. Will Blalock
These comments just prove that early Christian history affirms that they saw the destruction of Jerusalem as fulfilled as depicted by Jesus. What is noticeably lacking is any connection of this event with a "coming" of the Lord. I hope that other discerning readers noticed this. It is quite disingenous then to label such writing as unqualified "preterist." And I am an orthodox (read non-heretical unlike the vile poison distributed at this site in lethal doses) preterist but I want to treat the historicial documents fairly and this is not fair treatment.
All seem to miss the words of Isaiah, which predict that the King must be descended genetically from King David. It would be logical to look for the most royal man alive, See Isaiah 22:22 and when found, he is the King, the Christ. In Isaiah 63 that same prophecy has the Lord unable to find anyone worth saving, and in anger he treads the winfat, staining his pure ghost like resurrected body - garments, in the blood of the sour grapes of mankind, i.e. all corrupted. The throne of David is everlasting, according to the bible, and so the only throne of Judah, not the Jews, as they are Kazars of Russia, and not genetically linked to Judah's kingly line, must look at the descendants of Zedekiah who was taken to Tara Ireland by Jeremiah, 583 BC. The throne was to merge with the Irish and end up in Scotland. History of the British is controlled by Freemason hold on the throne, but one line of genetic royalty continued via the lions of King William I. the Lion, who had two wives, the first producing King Alexander II and he the father of King Alexander III, who died without offspring. This did not automatically lead back to the half brother of Alexander II< who was much older than King William's youngest son by Isabel D' Avonal, his name was Henry, as via D'Avonal, was a direct descendant of William I. the Conqueror and therefore more royal than any other heir. By 1290 there was a vacant throne and this called 13 Competitors to vie for the throne, one was Patrick Golightly, the grandson of Henry who sir named by William I. the Lion, his father as Henry Golightly. The eventual blood bath saw Robert Bruce, a Freemason (Templars) emerge as they believe Jesus did not die on the cross and married Mary Magdalene and his children by her, became the Fisher kings and descend to the royals of Europe, the insane bunch of kings who are the same monsters who murdered all in their path. I could not trace the Golightly line until the Internet came to the world, and become available from 1998 when search engines made available more information. At that time, I had researched the family line of Golightly and Marshall, (MARESCHAL) as in those times, first cousins always married and second cousins were not permitted as it caused insanity. But politics caused the marriages of kings to women of second cousin genetics and insanity is rife. While all this interbreeding was going on, power struggles and wars kept the true genetic line from the eyes of the kings who would have killed off that line had they been vocal. Freemasonry was a child of Knight Templars that ran head long into the Catholic Church and Talmudic Jews infiltrated both. This began the assault on truth as the Jews from Russia had taken hold of an opportunity to developed with the occult teaching of the same thoughts that had devoured the Pharisee's at the time of Jesus. John 8:44. Today we see a Germanic Franco hold on the throne of David, being England and the Antichrist must therefore come out of this Roman religion of monetary dominance, intermingled with the World Order and Jewish control of the banks, in as much that the false Jews of the Bilderbergers, International finances and the UN, contrived wars from ancient times to now, where a problem is started economically, then the solution presented and then the hero's ride in and save humanity, which is just what they planned from the start. The International Monetary Fund and INDONESIA for example, occurred when the price of kerosene was raised and this cooking fuel, caused riots in Jakarta, that spread to the factories and a general strike, then the University students, then the army rises up to quash it, and then a military takeover and then the IMF insists that the laws must protect corporations, 43 billion set aside on a slow dribble into the economy and the government relents to corporate law. The latest blast was by the CIA to persuade Australians to join the US and go to war against Iraq. as 69% oppose it. Australia has been set up electronically via Telstra and pine Gap, to monitor the entire world and be the head quarters of the New world Order in Canberra after the contrived revamp of electronic equipment to ‘handle’ the Olympics in 2000, the reality to get Australians to pay for the surveillance equipment and allow the CIA at Pine Gap to install an 8 kilometre aerial straight down into the thickest part of the worlds crust, to use slow vibrations of the Australian continent to disperse water vapour away from the land and cause a massive drought, throwing farmers into the banks who greedily take the farm, as Australia is prophetically the Ephraim son of Joseph, to bring forth the Messiah, the Christ. As of 1998, I could not trace the name Golightly on the web, so I started a quest for people with that name to trace their genetics, postulating that any descent of the first Henry Golightly must be the true royal family. To my surprise the ball has rolled along gathering moss, and today there are chat rooms dedicated to the genetic link to Henry and king William I. the Lion and King William I. the Conqueror. They became soldiers, scouring the ancient books and we emerged with dates of birth, pedigree of D'Avonal, and so on, to emerge with the most royal man alive Brian Leonard Golightly Marshall, who has been bombarding the internet with pages like, who controls what, NASA did not land a man on the moon, Charles is the murderer of Diana and why, biblical codes, an explanation of the Great pyramid and how the Freemason's have implemented the prophetic time line called the year = 1 pyramid inch, and caused wars to align with it, ending with September 11 2002, it ending with the Jewish New Year, exposing the Jewish Talmud as being the occult secret religion of BABYLON, Predicted by Jesus, that has devoured the world and America, installed the Skull and bones men as presidents, who, out of Yale University they sprang and invented the CIA who downs planes, blowers up government buildings, creates Mayhem in remote places and blames the Muslims, move nations to war, control ALL TV, music, books, movies even Walt Disney studios. Overall the TV pop eyed public are brain washed with fluoride poring out of big city taps to soak the 90% our brains are made up from, to the bodies that carry it at 70% water, to make one dull, stupid and ill, and then have the Insurance corporations insure you, the hospitals mistreat you, the control of Colloidal silver as a natural remedy and cure for all things from Cancer to Arthritis and the drug companies creating virus's and then a vaccine. All revealed by a man who says he is Christ, Brian Leonard Golightly Marshall, an Australian, the most royal man alive, unable to find more than a few souls who believe him. Pathetic but true.
I think the preterist view is heresey
This is rather intriguing information. I have learned through my studies that 90% of biblical interpretations point to a pre-millinial tribulation preceded by a rapture of the true church. After much thought and prayer, I have considered the possibilty of a rapture occurring during the 3 1/2 year Great trubulation before the Day of the Lord. This is the first time that I have seen a view that points out that biblical prophecies referring to the end times have already been fullfilled. To be honest, I am "up in the air" until I can do more research. The arguments for both seem to be inconsistant. The argument against one is the same against the other.... Do we interpret these prophecies literally or spiritually? The Preterist view seems to argue against a literal interpretation of Jesus returning and ushering in 1000 years of Jesus' reign. At the same time it argues that other events that were prophecied occured literally in 70 AD. The popular view seems to take "this generation" as symbolic of the generation asscociated with birth pang signs. (It seems that Jesus was referring to his literal generation) On the other hand, every possible symbol is converted into some literal occurrance that can be fit into two 3 1/2 year periods of time. The timing of the Rapure of the church is also sketchy at best. The Rapture occurance is taken quite literally. I must admit that your site has opened my mind to the possibility that 70AD is a major part end time prophecy fullfulled. However, it may be quite possible that this has left many prophecies undone. This leaves me with the opinion that neither opinion is completely correct. It is more likely that both views have credibilty. The truth is probably somewhere in the middle. Praise the name of Jesus our Lord!
I think you are a bit dishonest in listing some of the name that you do on your web site. It "creates" the appearance that they are (full) preterists. For example, I know that John Owen believed in a literal (yet future) coming of Christ, resurrection, and end time judgments. I know that RC Sproul is a partial preterist. Phil Bowersox
I thought I was the only one in the world who believed that the first and second comings of Jesus were to the same generation in the first century. For many years I have been reading my bible only and discovered that it presented a different narriative than what I heard preached in the Gentile christian churches. In the last few months I have learned quite a bit about Preterism.
This is a great site guys. It is full of truth and sound hermeneutics. I am a full preterist and I love it. No one ever has answers to my questions about a future coming of Christ, and I am at a Bible college! The message is getting out here; we are making a change and a difference. Keep up the good work. Don't ever give up no matter what people say and do to you. We must endure for the truth. Scipture is God's Word. We must stand by it, not men's interpretation. Where the Scriptures speak, we speak. Where the Scriptures are silent, we are silent. The Scriptures have spoken about Christ's return and His installment of the New Covenant, New Heavens, and New Earth which we live in. It is silent about a future coming.
hi, I live in Egypt.. I'm Christian Coptic Orthodox & we need these studies in Arabic because it's very useful for all, will you?!
Thank you for opening my eyes to preterism/partial preterism - a very viable alternative to dispensationalism's contrived teachings concerning 1. the rapture 2. the antichrist 3. the great tribulation 4. armageddon 5. the millennial reign
Dear Lien Notsur in reply to your post on January 26, 2003 06:00 PM Post a comment It is all a matter of genetics. In the book of Isaiah, the prophet predicted two Messiah’s. The two individuals are the same person, but one dies and one resurrects. The first was Jesus, April 3rd 33 AD or 3 days after the 3rd day in the 33rd year. <P> Jesus was rejected by the Pharisee’s because Jesus was the Teacher of Righteousness and leader of the Essene Jews in Qumran, as revealed by the translations of the Dead Sea Scrolls, by the deceased John Allegro. He was murdered after he defied the Catholic watchers in the Vatican and took his finding public on the BBC Radio in England. <P> The second part of the Isaiah prophecy, has this same man resurrected 1943 years later, and we find where I came to be, for my parents conceived my presence on April 6th 1943. <P> This union was not a fluke, only God could have manipulated the births and marriages and subsequent pregnancies among the descendants of a family tree that was caused to remain aloof to the lesser royals of Europe. <P> Out of the genetics of these true royal descendants, could the most royal man be born. <P> We have then, the suffering crucified Messiah proving resurrection than ascension to God, witnessed by people who were so convinced, they marched singing hymns of joy into the lions dens in Rome. <P> Apart from this, God has proven in time, sunlight and moonlight, the identity of myself via the number 888. <P> In the ancient languages, each letter has a value, and we can calculate the value of the name Lord, Jesus and Christ, which is 800, 888 for Jesus and 1480 for Christ. <P> I began to notice that I was not a normal child, seeing ghosts, hearing God talk to me and telling me to do certain tasks.<P> After 40 years I had become used to it, gathering the tools to cinch up the beast. <P> My brother was born on February 25th 1935, a man of vulgar habits and an atheist womanizer. This fits for biblically the older brother always rejects God and God can be witnessed to change the inheritor, as he did with Zedekiah when he was murdered by Nebuchadnezzar in 586 BC. His daughters were taken to Ireland and carried on the line of David. <P> 8.88 years after my brother was born, I was born.<P> The sunrise to moonrise for Sydney on January 11th 1944 was 888 minutes. <P> 8880 days later, I was in Port Alberni Canada and my daughter was born, the sunlight for that location on May 4th 1968 was once again, 888 minutes. <P> Governments are dominated by the strongest cult, and Australia, Canada, England, United States, bow before several gods, but primarily Freemasonry. <P> There is a saying about politicians, if their moths are moving, they are lying. <P> Over my lifetime, I have walked in and out of courts, beckoning the law to record what I do. <P> God told me to mint 1600 one dollar coins here in Australia in 1985. They average 8.88 grams. I was arrested and found guilty by Justice Web in the Federal Court. <P> Some months later, I was commanded to take charge of a Freemason businessman who was attempting to defraud me, and in a moment, the tables were turned as in a panic, he gave me a blank cheque saying to fill it out myself. <P> The point was that I was charged some months later, faced the court and was out on bail. <P> I was told to return to Canada where I began to manipulate myself into the system, my wife charged me with uttering a death threat and this set the cat among the pigeons. <P> This brought in the medico’s who tested me for months, to be dismayed by the results. Finally an Israeli agent came to me as a friend and administered cyanide. Dr. Hanson he called himself. <P> It was he who returned to my trailer, to see I was still alive, dismayed he declared I was Christ, which I answered, who did you expect? <P> This firmly made the announcement to the powers behind the governments, Satanists, who could do nothing to stop me. <P> I returned to Australia, faced the second fraud charge, and was found guilty by 12 men and women on the Jury. <P> On December 4th 1999 a book tumbled into my hands open at page 255, the Australian Mercantile Law, written in London in 1827. <P> That page contained the very law I was charged with, but the twist, the vowels add up to 3168. Lord Jesus Christ. <P> Now I have no ax to grind in saying this, and reveal it as an ongoing persistence as me name pops up all over the web in forums like this. Most people abuse me, but it is the children to come who will read these words in the years to come, and the outcome is certain. <P> I have many miracles to reveal in this way, and will do so in the months and years to come.<P> Kindest Regards Brian Leonard Golightly Marshall Being born in Sydney to the true royal families, was also a prophecy, Isaiah predicted it, ‘a small child would lead them.’ <P> I was around 3 when I noticed the strange ability to perceive and see spirits. By 4 I concluded that all adults were lacking in the area of existence. <P> Jesus on the other hand, was expected and tutored until the age of 12, constantly told he would die on the cross. <P> One day, while playing in the school yard in the convent St Bernard’s Nuns. <P> Tow older boys were arguing, one said Jesus was a Pharisee, the other no, a Sadducee. <P> At that moment, the air opened up revealing memory of the moment I was told that we were Essene. <P> I was young, 5 years old, looking up at my mother Mary, she was wearing black with a sky blue veil around the inside of her black hood. <P> She said that I must not tell anyone where we were going, that we were Essene and would be in danger if the Jews found out. <P> I turned to see Joseph walking between two smaller men, discussing intensely some topic. <P> As I was 6, the date was 1950. <P> The Vatican had not obtained the Dead Sea Scrolls at that time, as they were servants of the Devil, for the same scrolls reveals Paul as the agent of the Pharisee’s who was sent6 into the meek to divert the power of Jesus resurrection, but that was 15 years after Jesus died. <P> Paul said Jesus appeared to him on the road to Damascus, had this been so, that would have meant Jesus made a mistake with the 12 apostles, the same many were murdered by Paul. <P> Paul said Jesus identified himself and begged him to tell him why Paul persecuted him. <P> Had this been the case, that would have been the second coming of Jesus. <P> Of course it was a set up, Paul took the news of Jesus to the non Jews, when the commandments to the true apostles, was to go not to the gentiles but go to the lost sheep. <P> The Gospels never mention Paul, even through they were written after Paul wrote his tales. No apostle mentioned Paul as the new spreader of the word, while the Dead Sea Scrolls did, calling him the LIAR, they man of Perdition. <P> In Isaiah 22:22 he predicts that there would be an offspring born of the family of David, and he would be a key. He would ascend the throne and all of the world governments would be laid on his shoulders. Isaiah 22:22. <P> The King James bible was ordered translated by King James, he was a Freemason and in doing so, opened the numbers for me to find 400 years later. He had sprung a trap, the numbers can only be solved by a genetic coincidence and reveal myself. <P> Based on the assumption that life is the ultimate gift, overcoming its terror is the price we all must pay. Since many years ago, the blows I received opened my eyes to immortality, for man certain death experiences were miraculously prevented as if the air parted and time stopped, I became an observer. <P> The task manifest in my mind, that if I was the resurrected Jesus, I would have no one to help me, as the catholic prays states, that Jesus descended into hell, where I must get him out, oddly myself. <P> The codes in the bible are primarily revealed in the numbers, numbers that fitted my own very reluctant existence. I have waited until now to reply, as it is now past the 3rd or April and Saddam has suffered the tremendous attack against himself and his family. A diabolical act as one beast sets upon another. <P> To come is the move against Israel, and in answer too your previous question, that the Christ has to be born after Israel was formed, is true. <P> You see Israel was invented by the Lucifer worshipping Jews and cemented in history on November 2nd 1917. <P> Lord Rothschild, the head of the Lucifer Zionists, arranged with Lord Balfour to have England hand over Israel to the Zionists after world war 2, which was yet to occur. <P> To get the Yahweh loving anti Jesus Jews of Europe to Armageddon, the holocaust plans were set in motion and Hitler invented. <P> At the end of the war, Israel was given to the Jews, they not realizing it was a trap. <P> By 1996 the population was 717 people per square miles, and the 717th word alphabetically of the New Testament is Armageddon, see James Strong’s concordance on the Internet. <P> It is intended to be above the mentality of the innocent, but within the grasp of the saints who seek me, fir I tell you the truth.<P> In this regards I have proven that NASA never sent a man to the moon, and it was the US military who brought down the twin towers and sent a Patriot missile into the Pentagon. <p> It is no coincidence that the Pentagon was precisely 60 years old, to the minute, that this occurred in 1999 September 11. <P> These monsters poison the worlds water with fluoride, and so I invented Miracle Water to combat it. <P> Is it not strange that I, their most royal accuser, is not dead? They know they can not kill me because I am Christ. The name Golightly, via my mother, is a direct descendant of both King William I. The Lion of Scotland and King William I. The Conqueror of England, as is my Father Reginald Marshall. Brian Leonard Golightly Marshall
In response to the free mason born in 1943 claiming to be Christ: "Then if anyone says to you, 'Behold, here is the Christ,' or 'There He is,' do not believe him. For false Christs and false prophets will arise and will show great signs and wonders, so as to mislead, if possible, even the elect. Behold, I have told you in advance. So if they say to you, 'Behold, He is in the wilderness,' do not go out, or, 'Behold, He is in the inner rooms,' do not believe them. For just as the LIGHTNING comes from the east and flashes even to the west, SO WILL BE THE COMING OF THE SON OF MAN BE. Matt. 24:23-27 Those passages state clearly, you are a false prophet and not the christ.
The Preterits ignore one major fact. God calling his Jewish people back to “the land” reforming the nation of Israel recognized by the United Nations in 1949. . Few Gentiles were saved/ joined to Israel prior to the CRUCIFICATION at which time God started engrafting the Gentiles and started cutting off the people of Israel which was completed in 70 A.D. thereafter few Jews being added to the church just as before few Gentiles were saved. . But the times of the Gentiles is coming to a close when ALL Israel will be saved. Hence God has began re-engrafting the Jewish people (& the nation of Israel) back on the natural olive tree (in 1949 by re-establishing the Jewish people in the only real estate ever deeded by the living God to any people) and at CHRIST’s 2nd return (yet future to rule and reign over the entire earth 1,000 years – “All Preterits have to explain this away also”) may begin at the 70th or 80th birthday of the nation of Israel in God’s sight on HIS calendar. Folks you don’t BIND God with man’s time table/thinking of “soon,” “quickly,” for God is not a creature bound in or by time as fallen men’s minds think. . A day to YaHWeH is as a thousand years to mankind. For a man to “very soon and Quickly” finish college, build a house, or get married. . . two days is FAST, very FAST. So it is with God around 2,000 years to God is REAL FAST. We need to hear and think and believe the scriptures as the giver God intends us to see it instead of as some 2Timothy2:17 Hymenaeus / Philetus false teachers preach it. Send email comments to: firstname.lastname@example.org with Preterit FOR or AGAINST in the subject line. Here praying for you.
Re: the fella below who said Luke 17:22 being a contradiction with the rest. Go back and read it again, realizing Jesus was essentially saying: 'Times are coming where you'll really want to see the Son of Man but you won't...DON'T fall for the imposters'. In other words there'd certainly be a time between 30-70 A.D when they would really want those days there but they aren't coming until the appointed time. This makes sense. Further, it's inconceivable that Luke would have contradicted himself just a couple of chapters later where he reiterates the Discourse. Had he been trying to 'explain his way around it after the fact', he would have jumbled around the discourse or not included it at all. Hope you don't give up in your search friend, Blessings.
Being an amateur historian, I always have thought the siege and destruction of the Jewish Nation in 70 A.D. was an event of historical significant importance. But it is from reading Holy Scripture, that one readily finds God had always used Gentile nations to either punish or to bless the Hebrew people. For their sin of idolatry and breaking of God's covenant, The Houses of Israel and Judah were lead into Assyrian and Babylonian captivity. Likewise, King Cyrus was prophesied by God to use the power of the Persian empire to again free the House of Judah from Babylonian captivity and to rebuild Jerusalem and resurrect Temple worship. So it's no surprise to me the Roman empire was simply carrying out the divine dictates of a wrathful God in finally destroying an insolent people for their rejection, and betrayal to death of His Son. But when you listen to, or view, any so-called Christian cable station, you never get this simple and direct point of view. In fact, the events of 70 A.D. are little mentioned, and if they are, are cited without any spiritual perspective. So how has this time honored Christian doctrine, cited by your numerous authors of both past and present centuries, become so anathema today. To say the least, the sound of the silence is quite deafening. J.P.
You quote from Justin Martyr, Irenaeus, and Tertullian. You quote just enough to make them look like they are preterist in belief. All these men were avowed premellennialist. You need to read more and not just stop where you want to.
just had to add for everyone who is screaming because people are being "shown as preterists": This page has to do with the "Significance of AD 70." Just because some of the people quoted were may or may not have been preterist, does not mean that they didn't recognize the significance of AD70. They did, in one way or another, and so they are quoted. That's all that is attempting to be said on this page.
I believe that Jesus, when He spoke of the Kingdom of God coming into the earth, was speaking of a Kingdom that is composed of our acceptation of Grace, that by Grace accepted by our faith, we can instantly enter into the Kingdom of God. WHEN Jesus noted "The Kingdom of God is within you," this is what He referred to! Beyond doubt, I believe Jesus/Yeshua will be found in the air, within a decade, for the commotions from this planet, the dishonesty and lusts of every sort, and this even from men and women who have the burdens of the nations on their shoulders, yet they refuse to go to their God, and daily seek His face, that He might bring them a right temperament, thus ensuring their nations are doing all that can be done for the people that they have been put into office by. Unless Mashiach does come again, and that soon, the entire planet will be one huge mass of contradiction and chaos, and satanic influences will work through the leaders, to bring about the Satanic Reign of Planet Earth, which will cater to the carnal desires of the rich and famour, and crucify those who love Jesus, and live according to the words that He spoke.!
"...no one is in danger of defending a heresy if one maintains the view that the single and total perfecting of the human person in 'body' and 'soul' takes place immediately after death, that the resurrection of the flesh and the general judgement take place 'parallel' to the temporal history of the world; and that both coinside with the sum of the particular judgements of individual men and women." Karl Rahner, "The Intermediate State," in "Theological Investigations," 17:14-15...as quoted on pg. 66, "Responces to 101 Questions on Death and Eternal Life," by Peter C. Phan.
70 AD ends the nation of Israel - Jesus wept, knowing that unavoidable incoming doom was so near. Now - we wait in the wilderness for the times of the gentiles to be completed and for the restoration of Israel to begin with the onset of the soon to be king, the son of David.
it is horrible i hate this
You fail to note that the "Sons of Zadok" or Essenes had long before discounted Temple worship. You also fail to note that, according to Christian legend, the "Judaic Christian" followers of James the Just, i.e. Zadok, were allowed to escape to Pella. The story is undoubtedly more complicated and most now lost. Finally, the Gospels are all widely thought to have been written after the fall of Jerusalem, so the prophecies were self-fulfilling, as many of the so-called prophecies of the Old Testament were, if the datings of the books are correct. You attmept to put God in a box and assert you can understand Him. How about some humility.
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