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EARLY CHURCH

Ambrose
Ambrose, Pseudo
Andreas
Arethas
Aphrahat
Athanasius
Augustine
Barnabus
BarSerapion
Baruch, Pseudo
Bede
Chrysostom
Chrysostom, Pseudo
Clement, Alexandria
Clement, Rome
Clement, Pseudo
Cyprian
Ephraem
Epiphanes
Eusebius
Gregory
Hegesippus
Hippolytus
Ignatius
Irenaeus
Isidore
James
Jerome
King Jesus
Apostle John
Lactantius
Luke
Mark
Justin Martyr
Mathetes
Matthew
Melito
Oecumenius
Origen
Apostle Paul
Apostle Peter
Maurus Rabanus
Remigius
"Solomon"
Severus
St. Symeon
Tertullian
Theophylact
Victorinus

HISTORICAL PRETERISM
(Minor Fulfillment of Matt. 24/25 or Revelation in Past)

Joseph Addison
Oswald T. Allis
Thomas Aquinas
Karl Auberlen
Augustine
Albert Barnes
Karl Barth
G.K. Beale
Beasley-Murray
John Bengel
Wilhelm Bousset
John A. Broadus

David Brown
"Haddington Brown"
F.F. Bruce

Augustin Calmut
John Calvin
B.H. Carroll
Johannes Cocceius
Vern Crisler
Thomas Dekker
Wilhelm De Wette
Philip Doddridge
Isaak Dorner
Dutch Annotators
Alfred Edersheim
Jonathan Edwards

E.B. Elliott
Heinrich Ewald
Patrick Fairbairn
Js. Farquharson
A.R. Fausset
Robert Fleming
Hermann Gebhardt
Geneva Bible
Charles Homer Giblin
John Gill
William Gilpin
W.B. Godbey
Ezra Gould
Hank Hanegraaff
Hengstenberg
Matthew Henry
G.A. Henty
George Holford
Johann von Hug
William Hurte
J, F, and Brown
B.W. Johnson
John Jortin
Benjamin Keach
K.F. Keil
Henry Kett
Richard Knatchbull
Johann Lange

Cornelius Lapide
Nathaniel Lardner
Jean Le Clerc
Peter Leithart
Jack P. Lewis
Abiel Livermore
John Locke
Martin Luther

James MacDonald
James MacKnight
Dave MacPherson
Keith Mathison
Philip Mauro
Thomas Manton
Heinrich Meyer
J.D. Michaelis
Johann Neander
Sir Isaac Newton
Thomas Newton
Stafford North
Dr. John Owen
 Blaise Pascal
William W. Patton
Arthur Pink

Thomas Pyle
Maurus Rabanus
St. Remigius

Anne Rice
Kim Riddlebarger
J.C. Robertson
Edward Robinson
Andrew Sandlin
Johann Schabalie
Philip Schaff
Thomas Scott
C.J. Seraiah
Daniel Smith
Dr. John Smith
C.H. Spurgeon

Rudolph E. Stier
A.H. Strong
St. Symeon
Theophylact
Friedrich Tholuck
George Townsend
James Ussher
Wm. Warburton
Benjamin Warfield

Noah Webster
John Wesley
B.F. Westcott
William Whiston
Herman Witsius
N.T. Wright

John Wycliffe
Richard Wynne
C.F.J. Zullig

MODERN PRETERISTS
(Major Fulfillment of Matt. 24/25 or Revelation in Past)

Firmin Abauzit
Jay Adams
Luis Alcazar
Greg Bahnsen
Beausobre, L'Enfant
Jacques Bousset
John L. Bray
David Brewster
Dr. John Brown
Thomas Brown
Newcombe Cappe
David Chilton
Adam Clarke

Henry Cowles
Ephraim Currier
R.W. Dale
Gary DeMar
P.S. Desprez
Johann Eichhorn
Heneage Elsley
F.W. Farrar
Samuel Frost
Kenneth Gentry
Steve Gregg
Hugo Grotius
Francis X. Gumerlock
Henry Hammond
Hampden-Cook
Friedrich Hartwig
Adolph Hausrath
Thomas Hayne
J.G. Herder
Timothy Kenrick
J. Marcellus Kik
Samuel Lee
Peter Leithart
John Lightfoot
Benjamin Marshall
F.D. Maurice
Marion Morris
Ovid Need, Jr
Wm. Newcombe
N.A. Nisbett
Gary North
Randall Otto
Zachary Pearce
Andrew Perriman
Beilby Porteus
Ernst Renan
Gregory Sharpe
Fr. Spadafora
R.C. Sproul
Moses Stuart
Milton S. Terry
Herbert Thorndike
C. Vanderwaal
Foy Wallace
Israel P. Warren
Chas Wellbeloved
J.J. Wetstein
Richard Weymouth
Daniel Whitby
George Wilkins
E.P. Woodward
 

FUTURISTS
(Virtually No Fulfillment of Matt. 24/25 & Revelation in 1st C. - Types Only ; Also Included are "Higher Critics" Not Associated With Any Particular Eschatology)

Henry Alford
G.C. Berkower
Alan Patrick Boyd
John Bradford
Wm. Burkitt
George Caird
Conybeare/ Howson
John Crossan
John N. Darby
C.H. Dodd
E.B. Elliott
G.S. Faber
Jerry Falwell
Charles G. Finney
J.P. Green Sr.
Murray Harris
Thomas Ice

Benjamin Jowett
John N.D. Kelly

Hal Lindsey
John MacArthur
William Miller
Robert Mounce

Eduard Reuss

J.A.T. Robinson
George Rosenmuller
D.S. Russell
George Sandison
C.I. Scofield
Dr. John Smith

Norman Snaith
"Televangelists"
Thomas Torrance
Jack/Rex VanImpe
John Walvoord

Quakers : George Fox | Margaret Fell (Fox) | Isaac Penington


PRETERIST UNIVERSALISM | MODERN PRETERISM | PRETERIST IDEALISM

Dave MacPherson

Dave MacPherson Study Archive | The Real Manuel Lacunza | Deceiving and Being Deceived | Thomas Ice - Hired Gun | Scholars Weigh My Research | Margaret MacDonald's Originial Pretribulational Vision | Pre-Trib Rapture Die-hards | Revisers of Pre-Trib Rapture History

  • Pretrib Rapture Scholar Wannabes (2011) "Is it possible that John Bray, Thomas Ice, Grant Jeffrey and some others can locate - or manufacture - evidence of pretrib before 1830 that even Walvoord couldn't find?!"

  • The Rapture Plot - Second Edition!  - Available at Gary DeMar's "American Vision" - "Now back in print as of 2007, this is MacPherson's most complete and most documented book on the Scottish beginnings of the famous "any-moment, pretribulation rapture" -- the 1830 imaginative addition to what had previously been known as only the "Second Coming" doctrine. See how plagiarism and subtle document changes created the "mother of all revisionisms"! (Paperback, 300 pages)

REVIEW OF JOE ORTIZ' THE END TIMES PASSOVER

Over the years I've had shelves of Bible prophecy books in my library. But there's a current prophecy book I obtained that's a far cry from the usual dime-a-dozen pop prophecy rewrites designed only to produce goose bumps in prophecy-oriented groupies who are often found on internet message boards and chat rooms.

The author of the unusual prophetic production, Joe Ortiz, chose "The End Times Passover" as the title of his monumental work dealing with Christian theology and especially various millennial and "rapture" doctrines. The word "passover" in his title is explained in the last sentence of the following paragraph on p. 117:

"Even more disconcerting is the pervasive and incessant promulgation of these left behind mythologies that permeate the Christian publishing and video markets of today, which are deluding millions of Christians into a false sense of security, motivated more so by profit and temporal fame. The author makes no apologies to these writers and preachers in regards to this matter. While there exists much love by the author for all those who claim to speak God's gospel truth about who is taken and who is left, claiming that those taken are Christians and those left behind are the heathen, it is inexcusable to persist in this folly when the word of God clearly states His children of promise are left (Gr. aphiemi, forgiven) alone, passed over, when He returns with great wrath!"

When one goes through Ortiz' scholarly masterpiece, he marvels at his tenacious task of taking original Greek NT words and translating them into English. If the reader wants light on the various "rapture" and millennial views, heaven, hell, Middle East, Israel, church, and almost every other topic bearing on the author's focus, "The End Times Passover" is the one book no one can afford to pass over!

Because of recently uncovered data that had been forgotten or covered up for more than a century, the Christian public now knows that the famous (or infamous) pretribulation rapturescape is actually only 178 years old, that John Darby (long credited wrongfully with either pretrib rapture origination or its basic development) wasn't original on any aspect of pretrib dispensationalism, and that pretrib rapturism since its birth in 1830 has been utterly riddled with dishonesty (rampant plagiarism, the subtle changing of primary documents, the deliberate cover-up of contexts in Biblical passages, the flaunting of non-existent or non-accredited academic degrees, etc.)!

While Ortiz' focus is only on the theology (and not history) of end time views, he does lament on p. 194 that "This great secret pre-tribulation "Rapture" scheme has gone on long enough. The development of theories to fit the needs of those who have yet to develop complete and total trust in God's promises is not only destructive to the growth and maturity of the Christian Church, it impedes the Spirit of God from working in and through his called out ones, the ecclesia of God, which needs to be used by God to bring as many more sinners to Jesus before greater tribulation than in past times comes upon mankind.

 

Preterist Commentaries By Historicist / Continuists

"Since the 1970's stunning new data has been surfacing about the pretribulation rapture's long-covered-up beginnings in the 1800's. In recent years several persons associated with Dallas Theological Seminary (which had long been pretribized) have reportedly gone to Britain to check on my research sources and then write books opposing my claims.  In 1990 an Ohio pastor told me that Dr. _____ _____, the most qualified DTS prof, traveled there and came back and wrote nothing! The pastor added that he and some others had a good laugh. But change was coming. " (Pre-Trib Rapture Die-hards)


Ruth Graham Letter to Dave MacPherson

THE  RAPTURE  INDEX  (MAD  THEOLOGY !)

      First, let's explain "rapture" and then "index."

     Many Christian Right members in America believe in an imminent "rapture" (a coming of Christ that reportedly happens SEVEN YEARS BEFORE the famous Second Coming to earth).

     The "great tribulation" in the Bible is said to occur during those seven years. Therefore the rapture is viewed as a "pretribulation" event and reportedly gives believers the hope of being taken to heaven, without dying, and thus escaping the
traumatic seven-year period on earth.

     The "Index" (as in Todd Strandberg's "Rapture Index") lists 45 "precursors" (events on earth reportedly acting as signposts pointing to the rapture, and showing how close the rapture is).

     And here's where the mad theology comes in. The Rapture Index "precursors" (including "Antichrist") are on earth even AFTER the point in time for a "pretrib" rapture, are fulfilled DURING the seven-year tribulation period, and actually point to ONLY the (posttribulation) Second Coming to earth and not to any sort of "pretribulation" coming - a concept that NO church before 1830 ever taught!

     Promoters and merchandisers of pretrib rapture theology have claimed in recent years to have found a few individuals before 1830 who supposedly taught a "pretrib" rapture or coming - but none of those promoters has ever found any ORGANIZED CHURCH teaching or even hinting at such a doctrine before that date. If you will go to Google or other search engines and type in "Deceiving and Being Deceived" (one of my earliest internet articles), you will see how groundless the claims are for certain pre-1830 individuals that have been dredged up. Even if a few pre-1830 persons DID seem to teach a pretrib rapture, why would pretrib promoters want to side with them instead of siding with the 99 percent who obviously DID NOT embrace a pretrib rapture view?

     If you're interested in this subject, you can visit engines like Google, Yahoo, or MSN and type in "Pretrib Rapture Diehards" (the long-covered-up history of "pretrib" teaching), "Famous Rapture Watchers" (the only "rapture" view held by all churches before 1830), "Thomas Ice (Bloopers)" (the level of scholarship often seen in "pretrib" circles!), "Open Letter to Todd Strandberg," and "Appendix F: Thou Shalt Not Steal" (scandalous plagiarism in writings by Falwell, Dobson, Hindson, LaHaye, Ryrie etc.; such thievery has long characterized pretrib rapturists beginning with Darby (and his contemporaries), Seiss, and Bullinger in the 1800's and continuing with later members of the Christian Rewrite such as Lindsey, Unger, Jeremiah, Carlson, Tan, Missler, and Van Impe!).

     If you'd like to go even further in your research, you can obtain my 300-page book "The Rapture Plot" (my greatest collection of documentation on pretrib rapturism's bizarre 19th century development) by calling 800.643.4645.

What do YOU think ?

Submit Your Comments For Posting Here
Comment Box Disabled For Security


Date: 13 Oct 2006
Time: 06:20:07

Comments:

The futuristic interpretatio of scriptures is as much fiction as the series of Tim Lahaye's seies of Left Behind books. I believe that this approach to teaching the Book Revelation is more than fiction, even thugh the tearching of the raptre as the premillenials beleve is spelled out in this particular book. If one holds to the word of God and soes not add anything to the scriptures they will fall in line with the Preterists. Pasto Charles Donahue, Murrayville, Ga.


Date: 13 Nov 2006
Time: 08:16:40

Comments:

Study the Bible carefully concerning the rapture. Study the King James Bible, and don't change any words, or revise the meaning of any words. You will be surprised to find that the rapture occurred 2000 years ago. But it was only a rapture of the Jews. It happened about AD70. According to Revelation 20, the souls of Christ's disciples are in heaven at his time, in the New Jerusalem, ruling over the twelve tribes of the Old Testament saints.

C.P. "mac" machovsky


Date: 17 Dec 2006
Time: 23:08:16

Comments:

I really enjoy what you argue about the secret rapture and the "Left Behind Series." It was refreshing to hear someone besides myself, and a few others, expose that Jesuit constructed, pseudopigraphal based, Testament of the Twelve Patriarchs' Beliar myth system of intepretation. I myself have a web site at:www.prophetictoolchest.bravehost.com. My book is titled: PROPHETIC TOOL CHEST FOR DISMANTELING THE DISPENSATIONAL DELUSION. Though I am not a Preterist, we have much in common. Please continue the good work, I have posted your web site in my material.


Date: 18 Jan 2007
Time: 01:16:00

Comments:

I now have proof that Brethrenism arose out of the doctrine of Freemasonry.

J. N. Darby said;
"Supposing we were a body of Freemasons, and a person were excluded from one lodge by the rules of the order, and instead of looking to the lodge to review the case, if it was thought to be unjust, each other lodge were to receive him or not on their own independent authority, it is clear the unity of the Freemason system is gone. Each lodge is an independent body acting for itself. It is vain to allege a wrong done, and the lodge not being infallible; the competent authority of lodges, and the unity of the whole is at an end. The system is dissolved. There may be provision for such difficulties. All right if it be needed. But the proposed remedy is the mere pretension of the superiority of the recusant lodge, and a dissolution of Freemasonry." On this Mr. Darby further remarks, "The Church is not a voluntary system. It is not formed (or rather unformed) of a number of independent bodies, each acting for itself. It was never dreamed, whatever the remedy, that Antioch could let in Gen

Upper levels of Freemasonry worship SATAN directly.


Date: 28 Jan 2007
Time: 11:09:35

Comments:

You are correct. There is no pre-trib rapture. It is unbiblical.


Date: 07 Feb 2007
Time: 19:31:36

Comments:

Brother MacPherson,



Some years ago, I bought several copies of your book “Rapture?” from New Puritan Library with a final chapter by O. J. Graham. I have given all but y last copy to Christians with convincing success. Where can I buy copies today?



In His service,



G. L. Moison <scsn57@verizon.net>


Date: 09 Feb 2007
Time: 19:34:14

Comments:

Preterists have no future - sad but true.

I say this in light that 33% of the bible is prophetic. The Preterists problem is there dealing with TIME - and how TIME is used in the bible. AN Entire THEOLOGY which was destroyed once, 100 years ago, has surfaced again, and all based on TIME.
Well, wasting TIME debating TIME is something satan loves, so I will quit wasting my time in here with preterists, and let them live there wonderful life of "Just say NO to Biblical Prophecy, as it all happened already" LOL - and the beat goes on..........

Wayne
Futurist and Crown Winner of the Looking for Jesus to Call up His Church


Date: 09 Jun 2007
Time: 15:12:42

Comments:

I think that people have a desire to know about the rapture and other end of times events - as another reason to study & worship God. Sort of 'give me the reason to study' or 'what would happen if I don't study' The study & worship of God is not a subject you want to fail or.... look at the reults! Another thing to consider is that people have a fascination for horror stories, roller coasters and scary stories. What batter or scarier story is there than the rapture and other end time tales/prophesy
 


Date: 17 Nov 2007
Time: 23:10:27

Comments:

Hello, Mr. MacPherson

This is D.S. Farris. Sometime back I contacted you about my online book and congradulated you on your work in dealing with Dispensationalism. I wanted to inform you that PROPHETIC TOOL CHEST has relocated to a different web address. We are now at:www.hearingthetruth.org. If you want to link with us as you did before, that will be good; for we have links in our book to your web site: we direct all kinds of people to your web site. Have a good day, and keep up the good work.


Date: 01 Apr 2009
Time: 19:16:58

Your Comments:

The Bible doesn't support either view of pre-trib or post-trib (nor the lesser believed mid-trib) rapture. There is just as many arguing passages for both. But, there is nothing supporting any Christian being miraculously protected during the rapture. Dave MacPherson attacks certain Teologians for the exact same reason he uses to do so...SELL BOOKS. Whichever anyone believes, We should stop the focus on battling each other and focus instead on preparing those who won't be saved in either rapture. God Bless all who serve the Lord.


Date: 16 Jul 2009
Time: 17:10:21

Your Comments:

Thank you Mr. Dave MacPherson,
As a late starter in Christianity I was surprised when I was asked of my thoughts on different doctrines, one being the rapture. Admitting I didn’t knowing what the rapture was they proceeded to explain it to me. I had read and studied the bible about 15 years earlier, and couldn’t recall having the same view on the rendered verses. Upon further in-depth studying via internet, comparing all to His true word and praying I didn’t arrive at the same conclusion.
A bit dismayed I began placing my thoughts in an essay form in an attempt to ensemble the many piece of the puzzle. Reviewing their bible references 1 Corinthians 15:51-52, 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17.… and others including added information from the web and different commentaries. Always trying to keep an open mind. I couldn’t associate any of it to a rapture, most referenced sleeping saints and those who endure to the end. I will admit the understanding of Matthew 24:40-41 still eludes me but one verse won’t change my views. Besides 2 Thessalonians 2:3 as far as I’m concerned locks it in adding the fact of Matthew 13:2-30 Jesus telling them to allow them together till the harvest which I believe correlates with Revelation 14:14.
My conviction on the rapture has brought trouble between my wife and her family along with having changed churches (easter celebration added issue) do to my occasional inquiries and periodic protests, along with a minimal dispersing of my essays for review on the subject. In my heart I was troubled and only asked them to review the information, as I have done many times since, without a single reply short of the usual “it‘s not what we believe“.
My wife’s sister refuses to even look at the papers claiming her church said it wasn’t of the bible. Compiling all my notes and essays I asked my wife to pass them to her sister so she could set up a meeting between us, her pastor, church offering adequate time for them to review and critique said information. Surprisingly they declined the offer refused to even review the information, leading me to believe they simply can’t.
I told my wife “It’s funny Christians will go to non-believers, strangers and attempt to convert them. But will not take the time, one believer to another who has ascertained a dissimilar view, nor will they take the time to debate it. Even if in the end we don’t agree, should we not act as Christians, agree to disagree, hug, with the love of Jesus, move on to our prim goal saving the un-saved. I said all that to say your name kept coming up in my research as did many others. Goggling most, yours was that re assurance I’m not totally wrong in my summations of the rapture. More convincing was your open letter and articles correcting the wrongs.(2 Timothy 3:14-4:5 comes to mind)
I have always felt if you believe it, put it in writing with your name on it. I thank you for being that beacon of light in these days of so many distorted beliefs and insatiable cravings for ear tickling.

Stevenhorney@yahoo.com

Steven H. Horney
 


Date: 24 May 2010
Time: 08:46:04

Your Comments:

All this rapture stuff seems rather pointless
and diverts people from spiritual matters into
theology. When there is a so-called harvest of
the earth whatever happens will be according to
the program of higher inteligence and will perhaps
go unnoticed by lower intelligence. As I understand
it, this sort of thing goes according to what has
actually developed in the heart/soul of man rather
than along theological lines. Human thinking seems
to go in the pattern of which "club" you join.
 


Date: 11 Jun 2010
Time: 08:01:36

Your Comments:

I am a pastor and I can appreciate your book on the Rapture plot , It is wonderful proof of the real truth of the soon comming of Christ, Its sad that pre-tribbers have lied to us for so long. Thank you for your courage to stand up for the Truth. Fred Keener from Alabama
 


Date: 30 Aug 2010
Time: 12:53:26

Your Comments:

The Bible clearly states, The Antichrist has to come on the scene before JESUS RETURNS!!! What is going on with all the main stream Churchs teaching this false doctrine?? GOD'S inspired word of TRUTH will prevail...GOD BE WITH THOSE TEACHERS OF THIS FALSE TEACHING?????


Date: 10 Oct 2011
Time: 18:53:16

Your Comments:

Pretribulationists like to say that Christ must be coming back for the church before the tribulation because the Bible says the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, and He wouldn't be able to come as a thief in the night if the tribulation was first. II Peter 3:10 says, "But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night IN WHICH the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works in it will be burned up." My question to them would be is the tribulation before or after the heavens pass away and the elements melt, etc?


Date: 23 Feb 2013
Time: 18:41:41

Your Comments:

2 The 2:3 ;Rev 13:18 Here is wisdom the name of Satan son, anchor concepts classic Kjv note bible Page 216, Barak Page 666 Obamah means high place. DEUTERONOMY 33:29 Who is the sword? Moses last words high place (Obamah) as ah sound Jah and against most high Psalms 83:18 the powers in high places of Eph 6:12. Born 216 day in the midst of the sea opposite Israel.
A President of the people (Republic) confirming the treaty 3.5 years midst 42nd month 28 JULY 2012, when he breaks sudden destruction. Barak Obama revealed. O ASSYRIAN Isa10:5 also means high place. Power over the body to get you soul health care bill page 1000- 1008 the mark of the beast. The hand/ arm of God is upon us. EZEKIEL 4:7

CROWN T Banach


Date: 19 Aug 2013
Time: 18:32:00

Your Comments:

I think saying that the teniachg of the rapture is relatively new, is quite a broad statement, and you say it with such authority, Beth Ellen!How can you, were you there?I wasn't, I wasn't in 1st century either, but it has been reported that two early Church fathers from the first century, Clement and Polycarp, made statements that may appear to be a reference to the rapture.But we have the Bible and it does talk of a meeting in the air different from that of Jesus returning for a 2nd coming.1 Corinthians 15:51-53: Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. Mark 13:26-27: And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory. And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven. Matthew 24:43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up. Luke 12:39 And this know, that if the goodman of the house had known what hour the thief would come, he would have watched, and not have suffered his house to be broken through. 1 Thessalonians 5:2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.1 Thessalonians 5:3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.1 Thessalonians 5:4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief. 2 Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with ferven!
t heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. Revelation 3:3 Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee. Finally, this last verse in Rev. 16:15 is spoken during at a description of Armageddon. This is a beautiful reminder that Jesus is coming prior to the time when he comes to kill and destroy. Remember John 10:10. John 10:10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly. I know there are different interpretations out there of all of these verses.I think the main thing we can learn from any of these verses is to be Be ready. Rapture, Second Coming, whatever you want to call it, we are to be living for Him and being ready.
 


Date: 21 Aug 2013
Time: 04:57:15

Your Comments:

I do not want to simply prolnog the debate either, but there seems to be some misconceptions on your end that I have heard from many of my dispy brothers. To be fair, I would like to clear these up for the sake of others who may read this blog in the future.First the Amill view is NOT replacement theology, never has been. If anything, it is expansion theology. Anyone can be a part of the Kingdom, Jew or Gentile. The NT was very clear that there was no more distinction between Jews and Gentiles. The Church now being the Israel of God, see Galatians 6:16 again. We can't just ignore it as Darby did.Why would God (in the dispensational understanding of the future age) redivde what he has brought together for good (Jews and Gentiles)? What should we do with this verse, For he himself is our peace, who has made us both one and has broken down in his flesh the dividing wall of hostility Ephesians 2:14. Christ removed the dividing wall! Why would it go back up in your understanding of the Millennium? I do not see this in scripture.I also am curious how and why Animal Sacrifices have to start up again within the dispensational understanding of the future age? To me, this is another red flag that the Dispensational hermeneutic is flawed because Christ was the Final sacrifice, was he not?Second, God did Keep his covenant With Abraham and David, and it was fulfilled in Christ and the Church, thus the NEW covenant was able to come in. And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's offspring, heirs according to promise. Galatians 3:29How could one spiritualize these texts when it says these things plainly? And as for all who walk by this rule, peace and mercy be upon them, and upon the Israel of God. Galatians 6:16Or this verse speaking to the Hebrews telling them that they were ALREADY and presently, a part of the New Jerusalem, But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to innumerable angels in festal gathering, -Hebrews 12:22As for the 1,000 years, i!
t is mentioned in the most symbolic book of the bible. To say Revelation is not symbolic is just dishonest. A study of Hebraic literature shows quickly that the number 1,000 almost always refers to a completeness or perfect amount of time. It is also important to know that Revelation was written in a Hebraic style not a Greek style. For example, Does God only own the cattle on a 1,000 hills, or does he own more than that? For every beast of the forest is mine, the cattle on a thousand hills. Psalm 50:10True, the OT prophets did proclaim and describe a reign of Christ, but they also thought he would be a geopolitical King as well, they were looking for something else because of their error of incorrectly understanding the prophecies, and thus, as we all know, missed the messiah when he came. Why should me make the same mistake they with the prophecies? The NT authors quoted OT passage after OT passage to show that Christ fulfilled them ALL, and to show that the the covenant promises made to Abraham and David were fulfilled.The NT only mentions Israel 73 times, and it is always in reference to them not believing! Why so little mention in the NT vs the OT? Because the promises to Israel were fulfilled in Christ's and His Church, which was the plan from the very beginning! Again, it is expansion not replacement. For no one is a Jew who is merely one outwardly, nor is circumcision outward and physical. Romans 2:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. Galatians 3:28So, to be clear, I am Amill, and I believe in a 1,000 year millennium that is a present reality as Christ's Kingdom is not of this world. I know this because Christ is King NOW, reigning in all power NOW (millennial reign) with all authority NOW. The 1,000 years represents a complete or perfect amount of time until He decides to return again to judge the wicked and the righteous on the last day, and to usher in the new heavens and earth.On a more superf!
icial note, keep in mind that only ONE place in all of the bible mentions the 1,000 years, and it just so happens to be mentioned in a highly symbolic vision. A literal 1,000 year reign is a pretty big deal, don't you think Jesus would have mentioned it? He was clear on all the other big things to take place, why be elusive about a literal 1,000 year reign?Hopefully I painted a good picture of the Amill view. As they say, A picture is worth a thousand words ..but not literally.
 


 

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