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Church-State Relations and the Book of Revelation
By Todd Dennis, Curator (Futurist: 1979-1996; Full Preterist: 1996-2006; Idealist: 2006-Forevermore)



Abraham's Two Sons

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EARLY CHURCH

Ambrose
Ambrose, Pseudo
Andreas
Arethas
Aphrahat
Athanasius
Augustine
Barnabus
BarSerapion
Baruch, Pseudo
Bede
Chrysostom
Chrysostom, Pseudo
Clement, Alexandria
Clement, Rome
Clement, Pseudo
Cyprian
Ephraem
Epiphanes
Eusebius
Gregory
Hegesippus
Hippolytus
Ignatius
Irenaeus
Isidore
James
Jerome
King Jesus
Apostle John
Lactantius
Luke
Mark
Justin Martyr
Mathetes
Matthew
Melito
Oecumenius
Origen
Apostle Paul
Apostle Peter
Maurus Rabanus
Remigius
"Solomon"
Severus
St. Symeon
Tertullian
Theophylact
Victorinus

HISTORICAL PRETERISM
(Minor Fulfillment of Matt. 24/25 or Revelation in Past)

Joseph Addison
Oswald T. Allis
Thomas Aquinas
Karl Auberlen
Augustine
Albert Barnes
Karl Barth
G.K. Beale
Beasley-Murray
John Bengel
Wilhelm Bousset
John A. Broadus

David Brown
"Haddington Brown"
F.F. Bruce

Augustin Calmut
John Calvin
B.H. Carroll
Johannes Cocceius
Vern Crisler
Thomas Dekker
Wilhelm De Wette
Philip Doddridge
Isaak Dorner
Dutch Annotators
Alfred Edersheim
Jonathan Edwards

E.B. Elliott
Heinrich Ewald
Patrick Fairbairn
Js. Farquharson
A.R. Fausset
Robert Fleming
Hermann Gebhardt
Geneva Bible
Charles Homer Giblin
John Gill
William Gilpin
W.B. Godbey
Ezra Gould
Hank Hanegraaff
Hengstenberg
Matthew Henry
G.A. Henty
George Holford
Johann von Hug
William Hurte
J, F, and Brown
B.W. Johnson
John Jortin
Benjamin Keach
K.F. Keil
Henry Kett
Richard Knatchbull
Johann Lange

Cornelius Lapide
Nathaniel Lardner
Jean Le Clerc
Peter Leithart
Jack P. Lewis
Abiel Livermore
John Locke
Martin Luther

James MacDonald
James MacKnight
Dave MacPherson
Keith Mathison
Philip Mauro
Thomas Manton
Heinrich Meyer
J.D. Michaelis
Johann Neander
Sir Isaac Newton
Thomas Newton
Stafford North
Dr. John Owen
 Blaise Pascal
William W. Patton
Arthur Pink

Thomas Pyle
Maurus Rabanus
St. Remigius

Anne Rice
Kim Riddlebarger
J.C. Robertson
Edward Robinson
Andrew Sandlin
Johann Schabalie
Philip Schaff
Thomas Scott
C.J. Seraiah
Daniel Smith
Dr. John Smith
C.H. Spurgeon

Rudolph E. Stier
A.H. Strong
St. Symeon
Theophylact
Friedrich Tholuck
George Townsend
James Ussher
Wm. Warburton
Benjamin Warfield

Noah Webster
John Wesley
B.F. Westcott
William Whiston
Herman Witsius
N.T. Wright

John Wycliffe
Richard Wynne
C.F.J. Zullig

MODERN PRETERISTS
(Major Fulfillment of Matt. 24/25 or Revelation in Past)

Firmin Abauzit
Jay Adams
Luis Alcazar
Greg Bahnsen
Beausobre, L'Enfant
Jacques Bousset
John L. Bray
David Brewster
Dr. John Brown
Thomas Brown
Newcombe Cappe
David Chilton
Adam Clarke

Henry Cowles
Ephraim Currier
R.W. Dale
Gary DeMar
P.S. Desprez
Johann Eichhorn
Heneage Elsley
F.W. Farrar
Samuel Frost
Kenneth Gentry
Steve Gregg
Hugo Grotius
Francis X. Gumerlock
Henry Hammond
Hampden-Cook
Friedrich Hartwig
Adolph Hausrath
Thomas Hayne
J.G. Herder
Timothy Kenrick
J. Marcellus Kik
Samuel Lee
Peter Leithart
John Lightfoot
Benjamin Marshall
F.D. Maurice
Marion Morris
Ovid Need, Jr
Wm. Newcombe
N.A. Nisbett
Gary North
Randall Otto
Zachary Pearce
Andrew Perriman
Beilby Porteus
Ernst Renan
Gregory Sharpe
Fr. Spadafora
R.C. Sproul
Moses Stuart
Milton S. Terry
Herbert Thorndike
C. Vanderwaal
Foy Wallace
Israel P. Warren
Chas Wellbeloved
J.J. Wetstein
Richard Weymouth
Daniel Whitby
George Wilkins
E.P. Woodward
 

FUTURISTS
(Virtually No Fulfillment of Matt. 24/25 & Revelation in 1st C. - Types Only ; Also Included are "Higher Critics" Not Associated With Any Particular Eschatology)

Henry Alford
G.C. Berkower
Alan Patrick Boyd
John Bradford
Wm. Burkitt
George Caird
Conybeare/ Howson
John Crossan
John N. Darby
C.H. Dodd
E.B. Elliott
G.S. Faber
Jerry Falwell
Charles G. Finney
J.P. Green Sr.
Murray Harris
Thomas Ice

Benjamin Jowett
John N.D. Kelly

Hal Lindsey
John MacArthur
William Miller
Robert Mounce

Eduard Reuss

J.A.T. Robinson
George Rosenmuller
D.S. Russell
George Sandison
C.I. Scofield
Dr. John Smith

Norman Snaith
"Televangelists"
Thomas Torrance
Jack/Rex VanImpe
John Walvoord

Quakers : George Fox | Margaret Fell (Fox) | Isaac Penington


PRETERIST UNIVERSALISM | MODERN PRETERISM | PRETERIST IDEALISM

Max R. King
FULL PRETERIST

Son-in-law of C.D. Beale | Father of Tim King | Coined term "Covenant Eschatology"


THE CROSS AND THE PAROUSIA OF CHRIST

Response to Marc Gibson's "The AD 70 Doctrine Examined" | Preterism By Reilly | The 70 A.D. Doctrine Examined | Was A.D. 70 The End?


1) King publishes The Spirit of Prophecy (1971)
2) Debates Gus Nichols (July 17-20, 1973)
3) Written debate with Jim McGuiggan (1975)
4) Northeast Ohio Bible College established (1977)
5) Publishes The Cross and the Parousia of Christ (1987)
6) Current journals Search the Scriptures and Studies in Bible Prophecy"
       (
The AD 70 Doctrine Examined)
 


“Jesus didn’t die and was not perfected (in his corporate body) to represent and retrieve only half of the harvest.”  // "However, if one already is free from the strength of sin (the law), and from the sting of death (sin), where is death’s power? For Paul, death is abolished when the state of sin and the law are abolished. The state of sin, the law, and consequently death are abolished when the old Covenant aeon is consummated, giving place to the New Covenant aeon of life and righteousness.”

 

(The Parousia is the Omega of Bible Prophecy)
"The cross and the parousia of Christ are in biblical eschatology what alpha and omega are in the Greek alphabet -- the beginning and the end. Our primary aim in this volume, as indicated by the title, is to show that Christ's cross and parousia (i.e., His presence and arrival commonly called the second coming) are the two foci of one complete, indivisible eschaton (end time) that pertain to the fulfillment of all redemptive history and prophecy within the closing period ('the last days') of the Old Testament aeon (age)" (Max King, The Cross and the Parousia of Christ, p. ix).

"It is the belief of the author that the spiritual method of interpretation is firmly established in the Bible, and that it is the basic and primary method of interpretation involved in end-time prophecy" (King, Ibid., p. 1-2)

"It is these two worlds which constitute a major portion of Bible teaching, and occupy a prominent place in prophecy. Failure to see these two worlds as they unfold in the scripture, and to make proper distinction of them, is a major source of error in the interpretation and application of scripture" (King, The Spirit of Prophecy, p. 33).

"Why have men concluded that the last days refer to the gospel dispensation? Since there is some basis for every interpretation of scripture, it is interesting to observe the reasoning behind this application. It is based upon another erroneous concept, namely that the Jewish age came to a close on Pentecost day. This is assumed on the basis that Pentecost was the beginning of the Christian age. The error is in failing to see the overlapping period of these two ages or dispensations. Ishmael and Isaac co-ercisted in Abraham's house for a time before Ishmael was cast out. The Jewish age did not end untfl their city, temple, and state fell under Roman invasion in A.D. 66-73" (King, Ibid., pp. 78-79).

"The second stage of the resurrection takes place in conjunction with the Messianic reign of Christ, which we have placed in the period of time between His ascension and His parousia in the A.D. 70 consummation of the age. This means that Christ's reign was an age- ending reign, a transition to 'the age to come.'" "Christ's pre- parousia reign had a two-fold objective that was interrelated, and therefore accomplished concurrently He reigned to consummate the old aeon, which in turn was bound up with the coming in of the new aeon." "The concept of consummation at the cross rather than by means of the cross has led to a distortion of the real meaning and time frame of Christ's pre-parousia reign, and consequently the whole biblical scheme of Messianic eschatology in the establishment of the kingdom of God had been thrown into total disarray" (King, The Cross and Parousia of Christ. pp. 415, 417, 418).

"This means that during the eschaton the believers lived in a tension of experienced and anticipated eschatology; between 'the already' and 'the not yet.' They were already in the kingdom of Christ (Col. 1:13), but still waiting for the coming of the kingdom of God (1 Cor. 15:24-28). But this waiting was not passive, as seen in Heb, 12:28 where the 'receiving of the kingdom' is presented as a present, active experience, as was also the case in their experiencing the powers of the age to come (6:5)" (King, Ibid., p. 32).

"When the temple is destroyed, the world ends. The ending of the world is the coming of Christ. The coming of Christ is the fall of Jerusalem, or the destruction of the temple, etc....ALL would come to pass before that generation passed into history, and that included the coming of Christ, as well as the passing of heaven and earth" (King, The Spirit of Prophecy, p. 39).

"There is no scriptural basis for extending the second coming of Christ beyond the fall of Judaism" (Ibid., p. 105). "...the end of the Jewish world was the second coming of Christ" (p. 81). "Prophecy found its complete fulfrllment in the second coming of Christ, and now may be regarded as closed and consummated" (p. 65).

"Applying the last days to the Christian age is a misapplication fostered by a misconception of such terms as 'this world' and the 'world to come.' While Pentecost, in a sense, was the beginning of the Christion Esic] dispensation, yet the New Testament writers often spoke of it asa world or age to come, because the Jewish age had not ended at the time of their writings. (The right of primogeniture belonged to until he was cast out.) Therefore, statements such as 'this world' are interpreted as meaning this present material world rather that [sie] the Jewish age, and the 'world to come' is interpreted as meaning what follows the end of this present material world rather than the new heaven and earth, or Christian age that followed the end of the Jewish age" (King, The Spirit of Prophecy, p. 79).

(On AD70 Limitation of Era of Fulfillment)
"Here is the basic problem. The eschatology found in the New Testament emerges from the Old Testament. The setting of its fulfillment is the closing period (the last days) of fleshly (Old Covenant) Israel.  One could rightly say that the New Testament has no eschatology of its own because eschatology pertains to the end of the Old Covenant, not to the end of the New.  Naturally, since the apostolic writings were composed during the last days’ time of fulfillment they contained a ‘future’ perspective, but this future never extended beyond the full end or consummation of the Old Covenant age in 70 A.D."

"The "harvest" stage of the resurrection encompasses the Old Testament saints for whom Christ died (Hebrews 9:15), thus not limiting "all Israel" in 11:26 to Jews living at the time of Christ’s Second Appearing.  His end-of-the-age coming would gather together "His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other" (Matthew 24:31).  Both the living (the firstfruits) and the dead (the harvest) were to be caught up and united in him for eternity in Israel’s promised "new heavens and earth" (Isaiah 65:17f, Revelation 21)." (All Israel Will Be Saved)

(On Who Comprises the "All Israel" in 11:26)

There has been much discussion about the meaning of "all Israel" in this verse. But the context shows that Paul uses ‘Israel’ here the same way he uses it throughout chapters 9-11, as a reference to Jacob’s physical lineage. Changing here to a ‘spiritual’ usage to include Gentile believers (as some hold) would counter the point Paul makes.  Paul was not replacing Israel with the church.  He was not attempting to prove the supposed ‘spiritual identities’ of Jew and Gentile in 11:26.  Instead, he was establishing for his Gentile audience that God had not cast away Israel and that "all Israel" will be saved. Our task, then, is to see the connection between the coming in of the fullness of the Gentiles and the salvation of not just part of Israel, but of "all Israel.”" (All Israel Will Be Saved)

(On 1 John 2:17)
“For them, the realm of the flesh was the object of His return, while for true believers, the world (the old aeon of the flesh) was passing away (1 Jno. 2:17), and the coming of Christ had the meaning of the coming of the new aeon of promise “according to the Spirit.””
( The Cross and the Parousia of Christ, Page244)

“Hence, New Testament writers could affirm in advance of the consummated end that, “The form of this world is passing away” (1 Cor. 7:31), or “the world is passing away” (1 Jno. 2:17). The Old Covenant was “that which is being annulled” (2 Cor. 3:11), and “that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away” (Heb. 8:13). (Page 256)


(On Death of Death)
“…the primary aim of Christ’s Messianic reign (His pre-end-of-the-age reign) was the resurrection of the dead by means of the age-consummation defeat of sin and death.” (ibid., 9)

“The fact that Paul is dealing with the 70 AD consummation of the Jewish age is brought out clearly by the manner in which he expresses death’s ultimate defeat (1 Corinthians 15:55-57). “The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law” (verse 56) Paul is conscious that death’s defeat hinges upon sin’s defeat, and that the defeat of sin is tied to the annulment of the old aeon of law, which is sin’s strength. Many interpreters are puzzled by the presence of “the law” in a passage where the law would seen to have no relevancy if it were removed at the cross. Nevertheless, the law is in verse 56, and Paul sees its annulment in connection with the consummation of the age very much a part of the defeat of sin and death.

"If sin, death and the law are, in Paul’s treatment of salvation-history, interlocking realities, how can these powers be defeated in Christ’s death and still remain to be defeated in the 70 AD consummation of the age?

"However, if one already is free from the strength of sin (the law), and from the sting of death (sin), where is death’s power? For Paul, death is abolished when the state of sin and the law are abolished. The state of sin, the law, and consequently death are abolished when the old Covenant aeon is consummated, giving place to the New Covenant aeon of life and righteousness.”   (The Cross and Parousia of Christ, 644-645)

(On The Second Coming)
"There is no scriptural basis for extending the second coming of Christ beyond the fall of Judaism." (The Spirit of Prophecy, 105)

"...the end of the Jewish world was the second coming of Christ." - (ibid., 81)

"Prophecy found its complete fulfillment in the second coming of Christ, and now may be regarded as closed and consummated." - (ibid., 65)

(On Acts 1:11)
"With this understanding of parousia, the account of Christ’s ascension in Acts 1:9–11 should be read and interpreted. The central idea here in the coming of Christ is not that of a return, much less a physical return, but of an arrival of Christ as determined according to the manner of His ascension. The real meaning of "in like manner," as that which qualifies His arrival, is missed in my opinion, when it is interpreted as a reference to the outward physical circumstances of His ascension. Rather, the focus is on the person – this same Jesus. He is the resurrected Jesus who no longer is of the aeon of flesh but who is the Lord and Christ of the new aeon of life. He ascends totally enveloped in the glory and power of God. Hence, this same Jesus will come; i.e., He will arrive "apart from sin" (Heb. 9:28), according to the very manner that "ye have seen him go into heaven." (The Cross and the Parousia (Warren, OH: Parkman Road Church of Christ, 1987), 495, n.92.)

(On Galatians 4:21-31)
"Christianity is a fulfillment of the prophecies, types and shadows of the law and not merely a ‘fill-in’ between Judaism and another age to come. Abraham had two sons, and there was no gap between them. They overlapped a little, but Isaac ‘came on’ when Ishmael ‘went out.’ The son born of the spirit was given the place and inheritance of the son born of the flesh. Hence, this simple allegory (Gal. 4:21-31) establishes the ‘Spirit of Prophecy,’ confirming prophecy’s fulfillment in the spiritual seed of Abraham through Christ (Gal. 3:16, 26-29), and beyond the fall of Jerusalem these prophecies cannot be extended." (The Spirit of Prophecy, 239)

(On I Corinthians 15:35-44)
"Next, Paul answers questions concerning how the dead are raised and with what body they come forth. The primary application deals with the development and rise of the Christian system itself, with a secondary application belonging to believers and their state within the system. The natural body that was sown (verse 44) answers to the fleshly or carnal system of Judaism in which existed prophecies, types, and patterns from which came the spiritual body designed of God.. The natural body, receiving its death blow at the cross and beginning then to wax old and decay (Heb. 8:13), became a nursery or seed-body for the germination, growth, and development of the spiritual body by means of the gospel.

"Thus, out of the decay of Judaism arose the spiritual body of Christianity that became fully developed or resurrected by the end-time. Hence, this is the primary meaning of Paul's statement, ‘It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body and there is a spiritual body’" (The Spirit of Prophecy, 199-200)

(On II Corinthians 5:4)

"The question centers in the meaning of these two houses or garments and how the change from one to the other is made. The general practice of equating the earthly house or garment strictly with the physical body rather than with that which determines man's mode of existence, proves to be more of a disruption than an exposition of Paul's pattern of thought. In this view, "putting off" and "putting on" become independent actions that necessitate a time gap between the two houses or garments. But Paul's language here points to something more than just putting on a garment sometime after another garment has been put off." (The Cross and Parousia of Christ, 597)

"The eternal kingdom was possessed (Heb. 12:28) and the new heaven and earth inherited (Mart. 5:5; Rev. 21:1,7)" (Max King, The Spirit of Prophecy, p. 239).

(On II Peter 3:8)
"To use 2 Pet. 3:8 ("that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day") to invalidate the inspired expectations of nearness of the end misses the point that is being made. The scoffers were the ones who doubted the sureness and certainty of God's promise, not the believers.. Peter's purpose, in quoting from Psalm 90, was not to give greater elasticity to the time limitations of Christ's parousia, but to bear witness to the veracity of God's word. What had been promised, taught, and expected within the time limitations of "that generation" would not fail." (The Cross and Parousia of Christ, p. 91)

(On The Significance of A.D.70)
"The fall of Judaism (and its far reaching consequences) is, therefore, a major subject of the Bible. The greater portion of prophecy found its fulfillment in that event, including also the types and shadows of the law. It was the coming of Christ in glory that closely followed his coming in suffering (1 Pet. 1:11), when all things written by the prophets were fulfilled (Luke 21:22: Acts 3:21). It corresponded to the perfection of the saints (1 Cor. 13:10) when the reached adulthood in Christ, receiving their adoption, redemption, and inheritance. The eternal kingdom was possessed (Heb. 12:28) and the new heaven and earth inherited (Matt. 5:5; Rev. 21:1, 7)" (The Spirit of Prophecy, 239)

(On The "Millennial Reign of Christ")
"We need to give further attention to the meaning of "the end" and its connection with Christ's parousia. Much has been written about an interval of time between Christ's parousia (v.23) and "the end" (v.24) as implied in the temporal adverb "then" (eita). For those who see Christ's Messianic reign as occurring between His parousia and the end, a thousand-year interval is squeezed out of this temporal adverb." (The Cross and Parousia of Christ, p. 493)

(On the Two Ages)
"It is these two worlds which constitute a major portion of Bible teaching, and occupy a prominent place in prophecy. Failure to see these two worlds as they unfold in the scripture, and to make proper distinction of them, is a major source of error in the interpretation and application of scripture" (King, The Spirit of Prophecy, p. 33).

"The cross and the parousia of Christ are in biblical eschatology what alpha and omega are in the Greek alphabet -- the beginning and the end. Our primary aim in this volume, as indicated by the title, is to show that Christ's cross and parousia (i.e., His presence and arrival commonly called the second coming) are the two foci of one complete, indivisible eschaton (end time) that pertain to the fulfillment of all redemptive history and prophecy within the closing period ('the last days') of the Old Testament aeon (age)" (Max King, The Cross and the Parousia of Christ, p. ix).

(On the Last Days)
"Why have men concluded that the last days refer to the gospel dispensation? Since there is some basis for every interpretation of scripture, it is interesting to observe the reasoning behind this application. It is based upon another erroneous concept, namely that the Jewish age came to a close on Pentecost day. This is assumed on the basis that Pentecost was the beginning of the Christian age. The error is in failing to see the overlapping period of these two ages or dispensations. Ishmael and Isaac co-ercisted in Abraham's house for a time before Ishmael was cast out. The Jewish age did not end untfl their city, temple, and state fell under Roman invasion in A.D. 66-73" (King, Ibid., pp. 78-79).

 "Applying the last days to the Christian age is a misapplication fostered by a misconception of such terms as 'this world' and the 'world to come.' While Pentecost, in a sense, was the beginning of the Christion Esic] dispensation, yet the New Testament writers often spoke of it asa world or age to come, because the Jewish age had not ended at the time of their writings. (The right of primogeniture belonged to until he was cast out.) Therefore, statements such as 'this world' are interpreted as meaning this present material world rather that [sie] the Jewish age, and the 'world to come' is interpreted as meaning what follows the end of this present material world rather than the new heaven and earth, or Christian age that followed the end of the Jewish age" (King, The Spirit of Prophecy, p. 79).

"The harmony and unity of all prophecy and scripture bearing on the subject, can be maintained only in the concept of a spiritual kingdom's being established or perfected at the end of Judaism [A,D. 70, MWG]" (King, Ibid., p. 154).

2) "The second stage of the resurrection takes place in conjunction with the Messianic reign of Christ, which we have placed in the period of time between His ascension and His parousia in the A.D. 70 consummation of the age. This means that Christ's reign was an age- ending reign, a transition to 'the age to come.'" "Christ's pre- parousia reign had a two-fold objective that was interrelated, and therefore accomplished concurrently He reigned to consummate the old aeon, which in turn was bound up with the coming in of the new aeon." "The concept of consummation at the cross rather than by means of the cross has led to a distortion of the real meaning and time frame of Christ's pre-parousia reign, and consequently the whole biblical scheme of Messianic eschatology in the establishment of the kingdom of God had been thrown into total disarray" (King, The Cross and Parousia of Christ. pp. 415, 417, 418).

"This means that during the eschaton the believers lived in a tension of experienced and anticipated eschatology; between 'the already' and 'the not yet.' They were already in the kingdom of Christ (Col. 1:13), but still waiting for the coming of the kingdom of God (1 Cor. 15:24-28). But this waiting was not passive, as seen in Heb, 12:28 where the 'receiving of the kingdom' is presented as a present, active experience, as was also the case in their experiencing the powers of the age to come (6:5)" (King, Ibid., p. 32).

"When the temple is destroyed, the world ends. The ending of the world is the coming of Christ. The coming of Christ is the fall of Jerusalem, or the destruction of the temple, etc....ALL would come to pass before that generation passed into history, and that included the coming of Christ, as well as the passing of heaven and earth" (King, The Spirit of Prophecy, p. 39).

"There is no scriptural basis for extending the second coming of Christ beyond the fall of Judaism" (Ibid., p. 105). "...the end of the Jewish world was the second coming of Christ" (p. 81). "Prophecy found its complete fulfrllment in the second coming of Christ, and now may be regarded as closed and consummated" (p. 65).

 

Old Testament Israel and New Testament Salvation. 1990:

Max King: "This was the future (the end) affirmed by Paul in 1 Cor. 15:24, when through the age-changing reign of Christ, DEATH, the last enemy, was destroyed. THEN the reign of God was established eternally in the new heavens and earth. THEN the dead were raised incorruption and the mortal put on immortality the prophecy of Isaiah 25:8 was fulfilled, "Death is swallowed up in victory." THEN, the sting of death forever was removed, because that which was its sting (SIN), and that which was sin's strength (THE LAW) had no place in the new heavens and earth. THEN God's promise to Israel to "make an end of sins" and to "bring in everlasting righteousness" was fulfilled. THEN was won the victory through Jesus Christ. THEN the salvation which is of the Jews came to its full realization and manifestation through the revelation of Jesus Christ. THEN all things written were fulfilled. THEN the mission of the Old Testament in bringing us to Christ was accomplished. NOTHING failed. NOTHING was delayed. NOTHING was postponed. NOTHING was carried into the Christian age unfulfilled." (Hardcopy, p. 70)

 


Max R. King in
All Israel Will Be Saved

"Romans 9-11 recognizes the process of the Northern Ten Tribes ("My people," Hosea 1:4) becoming dispersed among the Gentiles ("not My people," Hosea 1:4) only to be reconciled as the people of God (Hosea 1: 10-11; 2:23) through taking the gospel into all the world (to the Gentiles, Diaspora, etc.) before the end could come (Matthew 24:14)..  Paul uses ‘Israel’ here the same way he uses it throughout chapters 9-11, as a reference to Jacob’s physical lineage."

"We learn from Romans 9-11 and Paul’s ministry to the Gentiles that in every sense "salvation is of the Jews" (John 4:22).  God designed things that way by calling Abraham, giving promises to him, and choosing Israel to carry the promises to consummation in and through Christ.  It follows, therefore, that every facet of eschatology pertains to the Comprehensive Grace of God in fulfilling Israel’s comprehensive salvation.

Therefore, all facets of this salvation are included in Israel’s "time of the end."  The resurrection, which is the core of salvation, is no exception. Resurrection was promised to Israel (Isaiah 25:8; 26:19; Ezekiel 37:1-14; Hosea 13:14; Daniel 12), and it constituted "the hope of Israel" (Acts 26:6-9).  This hope resided at the heart of the gospel preached to Israel (Acts 2:22-39; 4:1-2; 13:32-39; 23:6; 24:14-15).

So, when Paul in Romans 11:12-15 points out to Gentiles that the "much more" of Israel’s "fullness" and "acceptance" would mean for them "life from the dead," he referred to the fulfillment of Israel’s promised resurrection. The Gentiles, thus, benefited from Israel’s resurrection just as they profited from every aspect of Israel’s hope, promise, and inheritance of salvation.

It is from this perspective that we can read and understand Paul’s teaching on resurrection in his epistles.  In his resurrection texts, he either corrected or gave further instruction to Gentiles relative to the fulfillment of Israel’s resurrection through Christ.  He showed the relevance of this fulfillment to the Gentiles’ own soteriological fullness and perfection in Christ. They could not set aside Israel and claim any advantage or perfection in Christ independently of Christ’s making good God’s promises to the fathers of Israel (Romans 15:8-9)."

“Placing the second coming properly within a first century context can help us avoid many of the interpretative pitfalls that plague the study of eschatology.” (P. 166)

“The Jews knew that Christ was coming, and they expected him in that generation, but they had been led to look for something that was contrary to what actually came. In this manner they were blinded to the first coming of Christ. In the same way, many are blinded to the second coming of Christ. Both comings were to transpire within the same generation. But what is the reaction of people today when told that Christ came the second time at the end of the Old Covenant age? It was similar to the Jews reaction to the first coming. They didn’t believe it.” (P. 168)

“No distinction is made in Scripture between what we might call the second coming and the fall of Jerusalem. The physical and spiritual results, and significance of that event, fill every need and purpose of the coming of Christ. The end of the Old Covenant system did not leave unfulfilled one single prophecy, promise, or blessing. Redemption began with a promise in Eden (Gen. 3:15) was promised to Abraham and to his seed, developed and witnessed through Judaism, and consummated by Christ in the last days of that age by his first and second comings. The age or world that followed was, and is, spiritual by nature, and eternal in duration (Eph. 3:21)”.

 

WHAT OTHERS HAVE SAID

David Chilton (1987)
"While King's work has a great deal of value for the discerning student, its ultimate thesis -- that there is no future Coming of Christ or Final Judgment -- is heretical." (The Days of Vengeance, p. 264)

Marc Gibson
"C.D. Beagle and son-in-law Max R. King first introduce this doctrine to our brethren at a Cuyahoga Falls, Ohio, preacher's meeting on April 22, 1971. Max King becomes leading proponent.

1) King publishes The Spirit of Prophecy (1971)
2) Debates Gus Nichols (July 17-20, 1973)
3) Written debate with Jim McGuiggan (1975)
4) Northeast Ohio Bible College established (1977)
5) Publishes The Cross and the Parousia of Christ (1987)
6) Current journals Search the Scriptures and Studies in Bible Prophecy" (The AD 70 Doctrine Examined)

Kurt Simmons (2007)
"This We Believe..."  A Preterist Statement of Faith; and The Great Debate: Does King's Covenant Eschatology Lead to Universalism?  Simmons-Frost Debate - "This debate represents a turning point for Preterism as 30 years of King's influence on Preterism is shown to lead to Universalism!  Equally important,  King's Covenant Eschatology impugns the cross by holding it powerless to save until the Mosaic law was taken away.  Don't miss this watershed event.   Preterism will never be the same again.)" (The Sword and the Plow - August 2007 (PDF File)

 

 

WHAT OTHERS HAVE SAID ON CG

"Barry"
"In my opinion Full Preterism equals Comprehensive Grace."

"Ed"
"Comprehensive Grace is the belief that, through Christ, all the world is saved. Not everyone in the CG belief system agrees what this means. Some believe that this is a form of "universalism", albeit biblical and not philosophical. Some believe that the "wicked" will receive some form of punishment, whether it is retributive or annihilating (two different groups). So, as you can see, there are some who are Conditional Mortality adherents who might consider themselves "Comprehensive Grace" adherents as well.

CG believes that when Jesus came, he came to "fulfill" the Law, that is to fulfill its salvific functions, since the sacrifices of the Old could not do it, it took Christ's atonement to accomplish (fulfill) it. Since it was through the Law that sin became realized and men "died" (Paul stated that when the commandment came, he "died"), the doing away of the legal requirements of the Law meant that "death" was defeated. This was accomplished, as all preterists believe, at the destruction of Jerusalem, and with it the Old Covenant.

Yes, the NT speaks of those not believing in Christ as perishing, or being sent into "eternal punishment", or being "destroyed". And yet, as preterists, we should see that this specifically refers to "the lost", whom Jesus said was "the lost house of Israel". Those "not found in the book of Life" should be understood as being those Israelites who did not keep the covenant (as is clearly portrayed in the other OT scriptures which mention the "book of the living").

However, as Max King has rightly pointed out, the destruction of the old heavens and earth, i.e. the Old covenant was the fulfillment of the promises made to "the fathers". CG adherents teach that this means that, through this "Lake of Fire" of judgment, these apostate Jews were reconciled to the Father. Hence, mankind was now reconciled to the Father."

I believe that his wrath was FINISHED in AD70. That which accused and condemned was destroyed, since the Law was fulfilled in Christ. If Christ propitiated God's wrath, then how could wrath continue? What did Christ do exactly? We preterists berate futurists for not believing in Christ's complete work, and yet, far too many preterists deny his completed work when it comes to God's wrath. Did Jesus come so that God's wrath could be greater and more terrifyingly vicious, or did he come to save the world? You tell me."

David Embury
"
Certainly CG holds that the DEATH of 1Cor 15:54-56 is done away and impossible to be resurrected post AD70 – at least with any degree of consistency. And the truth is, Paul does define carnality with the Law. Relying on the works of the flesh [Phil 3; Gal 3] for righteousness. The writer of Hebrews calls these works of religion as worldly and carnal [Heb 9:1, 10 - KJV]. As hardening as the deceitfulness of our transgressions are, if you believe that sin's power and condition on man was defeated through the Cross-Parousia event then how do you make provision for it all over again?"

"How is it indeed that we of the prêteristic persuasion chide futurists for not accepting shortly, soon and at hand etc yet deny, struggle with or just blatantly dismiss "all", as in:

For the love of Christ compels us, because we judge thus: that if One died for all, then all died; and He died for all, that those who live should live no longer for themselves, but for Him who died for them and rose again. 2Cor 5:14-15 [the those who live are those that realize this and in faith serve God by ministering His blessing in the world – believers are priests before God, and thus to the world]

This is the inconsistent irony of not being as full in your preterism i.e., pantelism, as you make out, that you hold to the universalism of sin for all humanity, yet some how God's grace only manages to cut it for a select few – and only then if they meet certain requirements, and all the while telling people of the unconditional love of God – what bogus nonsense, little wonder folk don't hear the good news, because mostly what is told isn't."

Wayne Jackson
"If the foregoing theory seems to make no sense at all, it is because the novice does not understand how these common biblical terns have been redefined to fit the King theory. The 'second coming' does not denote a Literal return of Christ in the future, but a spiritual, invisible coming in A.D. 70.'Resurrection' hasn't anything to do with the human body; rather, it refers to a resurrection of the Christian system from the persecution inflicted by the Jews between A.D. 30 and 70. The 'judgment day' is not a time when all men will give account to God, it is the destruction of Judaism. And the 'end of the world' is not the passing of the earth; it supposedly is a reference to the dissolution of the Jewish world" (Wayne Jackson, The A.D. 70 Theory, pp.)

Tim King
"I cannot write on the issue (Comprehensive Grace), until Max finishes his work on Romans 9-11." (Planet Preterist Interview - 2004)

Keith Mathison (2003)
"Max King also devotes very little space to an examination of Acts 1:9–11 in his massive book The Cross and the Parousia. His explanation of the meaning of this text is found in a single brief footnote. In this note, he argues that we should understand Acts 1:9–11 in light of our understanding of the meaning of the term parousia as "presence" or "arrival" rather than "return." The "arrival" of Christ is then determined according to the manner of his ascension. According to King, the meaning of the words, "in like manner" do not refer to the nature of the ascension itself but to the person of Christ. The point of these words is that this same Jesus will arrive. As we have seen, there are essentially two problems with King’s interpretation. First, the Greek phrase translated "in the same way" or "in like manner" is a compound adverbial phrase. It modifies the verb, not the noun. Second, the manner of his ascension was visible and bodily. According to verse 11, the apostles saw him go. This does not refer to spiritual insight. If we were to suppose that Luke is talking about spiritual insight, we would have quite the difficulty explaining the meaning of the phrase "a cloud took him out of their sight." Did the cloud take away their spiritual insight into the truth of Christ’s exaltation? Hardly. In Acts 1:9– 1, Luke is referring to that which is objectively visible." (Acts 1:9-11 and the Hyper-Preterist Debate Page)

Bill Reeves (1973)
"He then sets out to boldly force literal passages into his own mold of spiritualizing, and dares call one 'fleshly' if he does not agree with him. He switches terms and plays with English words, and employs his sophistry in the most subtle of ways. He adds a word or phrase, or otherwise makes some small change, to misrepresent his opponent. He quotes only part of an authority which would appear to agree with his position, and thus leaves wrong impressions. He has built up his own peculiar lingo to support his doctrine. He ignores contexts wholesale, and presses them into his service. His book is difficult to read and monotonously repetitious. Paragraph after paragraph is but a conglomeration of jumbled and unrelated references which he has arbitrarily applied to fit his doctrine. No one, without King's help, would ever have guessed that inspired writers were trying to get such a message across!" (Bill Reeves, "The Preterist View Heresy," Truth Magazine, February 2, 1973, p. 249).

Kurt Simmons: The Sword and the Plow - August 2007 (PDF File) "This We Believe..."  A Preterist Statement of Faith; and The Great Debate: Does King's Covenant Eschatology Lead to Universalism?  Simmons-Frost Debate - "This debate represents a turning point for Preterism as 30 years of King's influence on Preterism is shown to lead to Universalism!  Equally important,  King's Covenant Eschatology impugns the cross by holding it powerless to save until the Mosaic law was taken away.  Don't miss this watershed event.   Preterism will never be the same again. "

Robert L. Statzer
"Let me make a couple of observations on why Comprehensive Grace might possibly be the truth. Afterwards I will list a couple of flaws I see, not with its overall claim but with some of its presumptuos details.

The first thing we must realize as preterists is that the sheep and the goats judgement was a general categorical judgement that occured in the past. It was then that age-lasting judgement and salvation were determined. In other words it was then that the categories were put in place and fixed. God is not continually having to pronounce judgement or salvation. His Parousia was the final word on this. The judgement wasn't so much the determining of the eternal destinies of individuals as much as it was the determining of the destinies in which individuals will or will not necessarily be fixed, depending on there acception or rejection of the good news of Jesus Christ. The word for *everlasting* that is used in Matthew 25 does not necessarily mean endless but rather it means *for an undetermined period of time*. People do not like this because they think this would apply to *eternal life*, and therefore no one can be certain of eternal security. There is a difference however. A *forever* that is determined and sustained by man is indefinitely long. A *forever* that is determined by God can certainly be absolutely without end. I will comment more on this later. "


 

Tim King

"What Paul saw God do in redemption was nothing less than the recreation of all things. Adam's curse now is removed. God no longer is at war with humanity. We are now at rest.." (Give Me This Mountain, p. 166)

BIOGRAPHICAL SKETCH
By Tim King

"For nearly twenty centuries the Bible has been a fulfilled book, and redemption a finished work. We, more than any generation since the apostles, have the insight and the resources to understand its full message.

"Hal Lindsey had released The Late Great Planet Earth, an end-time book predicting – and sensationalizing – the arrival of the second coming, the tribulation and the supposed end of planet earth. It would become the best-selling book of the 1970s. In contrast to Lindsey’s phenomenal success, The Spirit of Prophecy received little attention outside of Max’s immediate church tradition. Those who did take notice condemned it, much like the church had once done to Galileo for observing that the earth revolved around the sun."

"It is easy now, with thirty years’ worth of hindsight, to see Max’s book as the seminal work of the modern fulfilled prophecy movement. Check the copyright dates of any fulfilled prophecy author from last century – none are earlier than 1971. Not only that, but they will readily admit that the writings of Max (or someone who studied him) had a profound impact on their present-day view of prophecy. No one, certainly not Max King, thought this work could possibly play the role it is playing in shaping how we think of fulfilled prophecy in the third millennium."

"Largely self-taught but a diligent student of the Bible, Max began preaching at the age of 21. In 1962, after a decade of pulpit ministry, Max answered a call to move to Warren, Ohio. In addition to preaching on Sundays, he logged hours in his study tackling the Bible’s unsolved ‘Rubik’s Cube’ of eschatology."

"Anytime a new paradigm is proposed its detractors brand it heresy. This was true in the 16th century when Nicholas Copernicus first proposed a heliocentric solar system. It took more than 165 years, Galileo’s telescope, and Newton’s theory of gravity to complete what we now know as the Scientific Revolution. In the process, unfortunately, the Catholic church channeled its energy to suppress and condemn the new scientific paradigm. This fateful decision put the church on the wrong side of scientific inquiry for almost four centuries. In 1992, Pope John Paul II formally declared the Catholic church in error when it condemned Galileo." (The TM View)

 

"I cannot write on the issue (Comprehensive Grace), until Max finishes his work on Romans 9-11." (2004)

"Some “leaders” in the preterist camp have been asserting that you are a universalist, because of some of the aspects of Comprehensive Grace. Well, I should ask you plainly, are you a universalist? Do you subscribe to “some form” of universalism and do you believe that everyone will go to heaven after his or her physical death?" (Planet Preterist Interview)

Tim King is a leading voice of the fulfilled prophecy movement and one of the most energetic anti-apocalyptic organizers in the U.S. He serves as editor of Presence--the magazine of transformed living, as well host of the annual "Transmillennial™" national conferences.

Tim's passion is in the area of "applied eschatology" or helping people turn preterist doctrines into life-changing dynamisms. In addition to pastoring a local congregation, Tim regularly conducts seminars on "Covenant Eschatology" and speaks to national audiences of professionals, scholars and church leaders.

In 1998, Tim left a successful career in business to become the president of Living Presence Ministries, the founding ministry of the fulfilled Bible prophecy movement in modern times. LPM was launched by Tim's father, Max, an independent scholar and minister in the churches of Christ back in 1971. A year following the release of Hal Lindsey's Late Great Planet Earth, Max King quietly published The Spirit of Prophecy. This 392-page biblical bombshell claimed "eschatology", or the study of last things, properly understood pertained to the end of the Old Covenant world, rather than the end of time.

Living Presence Ministries is supported by Partners from all across the country, and is run by three-full time volunteers and a project associate. It distributes a widest selection of books and tapes, offers leadership training for "area ministries," hosts an active online Message Board and leads an annual study tour to Jerusalem.

 

(On The Spirit of Prophecy)
"It is easy to say now, looking back, this was the founding book of the eschatological revolution that will shape the religious revival of the third millennium" (
Interview)

(On Transmillennialism™)
"In the summer of 1999 we invented a new word – "Transmillennialism." As a new term, this could stand beside ‘pre-,’ ‘a-,’ and ‘post-’ millennialism, the final forms that had developed in Christian eschatology.

Unlike traditional dogma, Transmillennialism™ sees Christ’s millennial reign in its first-century context, from the Old to the New Covenant, bringing about the transformation of the ages. It sees the thrust of the Bible’s speaking about how heaven comes to earth, not primarily about how one gets to heaven."

"Through The Spirit of Prophecy and all that has followed the last three decades or more, Max King can be credited with founding an entirely new field of Christian millennialism that, unlike other efforts throughout the ages, will not be snuffed out. To insure that Transmillennialism™ would not lose its inherent meaning through sectarian feuds (as "preterism" has), Presence Ministries secured a registered trademark on the term "Transmillennial®," particularly in reference to its use in conferences and study materials. Our intent is for this worldview to be studied and written about widely, but not to be redefined or misused by sectarian upstarts, seeking to forward their own interests." (The TM View)


Q1. In your most recent LPM Quarterly, you announce that LPM is hosting three National Conference Calls this fall, starting September 14th. This will be a milestone in LPM?s history and for the eschatological movement nationwide. When did you first see the necessity of pulling people from around the country and different denominations together?

When I became President of LPM in 1997, I had some firm convictions that the religious world in general had a far too limited perspective of God and all that He is doing to bring healing to the nations. I determined that LPM would take a transdenominational approach in everything it does. By transdenominational I mean that everyone, out of respect for the largeness of God, transcend his own particular label and work together in helping the world embrace the presence of the New Jerusalem and the grace of God among us.

Q2. Have you seen God honor this step of working across denominations?

Yes, definitely. At our annual seminar this summer, we had speakers as diverse as an American Baptist to an Episcopal Priest. We could not be more pleased at LPM with the diverse backgrounds of those who have chosen to join with us to build a transdenominational movement that is working to recover humanity's hope.

We are sincere in our desire to join hands with good people regardless of their denominational affiliation. As this message has gotten out, people have come out of the proverbial woodwork to build strategic alliances with LPM, the root ministry of the modern preterist revival movement. Gone is the day that people could say that LPM is only a church of Christ movement.

Q3. You mentioned in your journal that LPM began in 1971 with the publication of Max King's book, The Spirit of Prophecy. I still remember getting my hands on that book for the first time. It literally changed my life. Was it hard on your father to blaze a trail for this movement? Please share some of your early memories and give our readers some insight on the man behind the theology.

I was only twelve at the time Max's book first came out. It is easy now, looking back, to say that this was the founding book of the eschatological revolution that will shape the religious revival of the third millennium; but back then, the way forward was not so clear. The publication of The Spirit of Prophecy was not exactly welcomed with open arms. Some of the criticism was even personal. This affected each one of us profoundly. We lost fellowship with friends, churches and most painfully, flesh and blood relatives. At the time, Max stood alone. Max was Living Presence Ministries. There was no Don Preston, Jack Scott, William Bell, et al. There was just Max, his Bible and his firm convictions.

Few people stop to consider this, but at the age of forty, Max had hit his stride in his church affiliation and was in demand as a speaker (one year he had thirteen offers to fill preaching positions). By all rights he had more to lose than many who are in this movement today -- and he indeed did lose it. But he knew that what he gained was far greater. Like the Apostle Paul, he considered every confidence in the flesh a loss compared to the surpassing value of knowing Christ Jesus as Lord. Nowadays, as I hear others who presently are crying 'foul' against their detractors, I wonder if they realize how much better off they are that they even have a 'movement' to complain to?! But back then, who could Max tell? He faithfully labored alone.

Q4. As the modern founder of the preterist movement, how did Max's struggles affect you?

Personally, the worst part is that at the age of twelve, all you know about such matters is that your father can't be right because the whole world disagrees with him -- but he also can't be wrong because he's your dad, the pillar of your entire life ... I was torn apart inside. For years I couldn't even study eschatology without getting physically ill. I didn't want to know -- but I had to know. My own journey was slow, arduous and more painful than most could imagine. I'm certainly pleased to have come out the other end with both an enlarged mind and heart.

What I gained from this was that First Corinthians 13 comes before First Corinthians 15. If we fail to understand the prior, we have no business spending time attempting to understand the latter. It is a lesson that I pray others will come to embrace as well.

At the time I never dreamed that someday the alienation we felt from those who differed with us would be replicated by those basically in agreement with us. There are those who for years have read Max's books, subscribed to our journal, attended our seminars -- only to turn around and write books that are almost verbatim from the writings of Max without ever once citing any of them. I am thinking of a newly released book in particular. Max deserves better than this ... Intellectual larceny never honors God, and has no place in His kingdom.

Q5. Many of us who have studied Covenant Eschatology and see the fullness of what God did to restore humanity in Christ have had great hopes that this theology would help bind the church together, but we have seen just the opposite effect. There is much dissension between the different denominational viewpoints which are embracing preterism and that are being brought into this understanding. There have even been some mean-spirited attempts to undermine the message from within the preterist community. Do you think that Covenant Eschatology will ever produce a greater work of true biblical unity?

Great question. First, let me say something on behalf of Living Presence Ministries. In the words of James, "For all of us make many mistakes. Anyone who makes no mistakes in speaking is perfect, able to keep the whole body in check with a bridle" (James 3:2). We have and will make mistakes in judgment in our writing and speaking? we're just not perfect.

Max wrote The Spirit of Prophecy almost thirty years ago. Even The Cross and Parousia is now some fifteen years old. There are things in both books that he would say differently today. People need to realize this and be a little more forbearing. That being said, we are trying hard to lower the rhetoric and bring all parties together. For the times we have failed in this effort, we apologize. I think the heart of LPM as a ministry is a great one and I am proud to be associated with everyone involved. Together, we steward 30 years of history, which holds great promise for the 21st century church.

Second, I think we really need to reframe this issue of unity on a much broader basis. The issue in my mind is not one of 'unity,' rather, it is one of 'integration.' Let me explain. The entire basis for life is found in the observation of what takes place in a single cell (zygote). If it is healthy, the one cell becomes two, then four, eight, sixteen, thirty-two, sixty-four, etc. However, as the cell divides, it also integrates. Eventually, this cell has turned into millions of integrated cells, all of them perfectly working together -- we call this the human body.

It seems to me that Paul saw the body as having many members, yet the body was one integrated body. Biologically, the many members were made up of millions of cells (we'll call these cells 'personal faith convictions'). If this movement is going to succeed, it will take leadership that is willing to say, Let's not get caught up in the issues which formed modern denominationalism. We'll leave that up to God and the personal faith convictions of each person. We can differ(entiate) and at the same time be highly integrated. This is the beauty of life. If God uses this principle to bind his natural creation together, why not his redemptive work? I believe He does, and this is the only way to build a movement that will change the world.

Even in God's natural creation if a cell differentiates yet fails to integrate, you have a pathology; you have a cancer. Paul is clear about what to do with those constituting a cancer in the body. This is where I draw the line as well. The greatest loss is not in disagreeing, it is in refusing to integrate into the overall effort and mission for the growth of the kingdom. Ephesians 4:3 is pretty clear in saying that we are to make "every effort to maintain the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace." As long as we seek total theological agreement (uniformity), the billions who do not believe never will believe -- the world is watching and we must not take this lightly.

I firmly believe that Covenant Eschatology will bring about a greater sense of unity, but only through the God-given growth, the integration of the highly differentiated body of Christ. That, after all, is the beauty of life.

Q6. Back in the '80s, LPM coined the term "Covenant Eschatology." Please explain this term for our readers. We know that you have felt the term "preterism" now has a limited shelf life.

Covenant Eschatology is about the transition of God's relationship with humanity in and out of sin, and in and out of time. It is the covenant plan born in the mind of God before time began and living in the mind of God beyond time as we know it. All eschatology is tied to God's covenantal working. Once you leave the sphere of the covenant, you have been cut loose from eschatology's theological moorings.

Covenant is to eschatology what gravity is to the earth and humanity. Once you remove it, who knows where you're going to fly off to! I think this is what is happening in the current debate regarding individual versus corporate resurrection. When you step off the path of covenantal transformation, there is no landing place in sight. Covenant is corporate and has many implications for the individual -- but when you reverse this, you are running against the grain of Scripture.

As to the term preterism, it has become simply too loose a term. Any eschatological phrase allowing people to believe that the New Jerusalem is still future is not a term that will cut the mustard in what we are trying to accomplish. We are called to be civilization builders -- not just theologians. The civilizations of tomorrow will build outward from the New Jerusalem at their center. Either the entire paradigm changes or it does not. To have partial this and partial that is not going to build the necessary momentum to bring healing to the nations.

The fact that we have the terms 'partial' versus 'complete' or 'full' preterism proves this point. When the term 'preterist' was first used, there was no such thing as today's "full-preterism." In other words, the term is being stretched from its original meaning and usage. Post A.D. 70, there is no such thing as 'partial' Covenant Eschatology. God's covenantal plan is completely in place. All of it. No exceptions, no confusion. I believe this is a clearer way to approach it.

I have started to use Trans-millennialism as a term that could stand beside 'pre,' 'a,' and 'post' millennialism. Adherents of Trans-millennialism or Covenant Eschatology realize that the millennial reign of Christ has trans-formed the Old Covenant and that they are now in the eternal reign of the God --who is all in all (1 Cor. 15:28), and who is now transforming all things. Perhaps the term Trans-millennialism will catch on because it maintains the word "millennial" as a descriptive term. I think you will see this term used more and more by LPM in our writings and in the national media. I presently am defining this field of applied eschatology as Trans-millennialism in a new book I am co-authoring with Jay Gary, to be entitled, Recovering Humanity's Hope.

Q7. Our ministry has chosen to remain independent from any denominational group in order to produce a newsletter which will cross denominational lines. We have been criticized for this on many occasions. Your ministry basically evolved from the "churches of Christ" movement. Even though LPM is now trans-denominational, some detractors have claimed you still promote "baptismal regeneration." How do you respond?

LPM does not promote any single denominational 'distinctive' over and against another. If any of us has a bad heart, it doesn't matter what the issue is, we will use it to harm the kingdom efforts of each other. This was the tragic story of Absalom, David's son (2 Samuel 15). He used people's complaints to gain a personal following to overthrow the reigning King. The next time your readers come across a writing that slams someone (whether LPM or another ministry), they need only to ask, Is this the spirit of Absalom or the spirit of God? The spirit which is from God always has love for others (1 John 3:10). If it is the spirit of Absalom -- get away as fast as you can; "For where there is envy and selfish ambition, there will also be disorder and wickedness of every kind" (James 3:16); and who wants to be associated with that?

Lord, save us all from ourselves, and sowing discord in the family of God.

Q8. After attending LPM's Annual Seminar in July, we stayed over to attend Parkman Road Church and noted that you are making attempts to have different types of worship to include even unchurched people. Tell us about this ministry.

Since accepting the role of the full-time minister of the church in Warren, I have implemented several changes. First, the message of eschatology is not just found in the Bible, proving its points -- it is found in the application of its truths. In other words, the writing of God moves from head to heart to hand.

As a congregation, we have a community outreach that includes support groups I run for divorce recovery, singles support and grief support. James says that true religion is to watch after the widows and orphans. In other words, true religion is about mending broken relationships. The counseling I offer to the community is free. We want only to bring the sick to the Great Physician.

As a result, our church has begun to offer an informal worship for the unchurched. This service is casual and consists of very practical yet powerful lessons on connecting with God and each other. As we like to say, we aren't much for religion, but we sure love God. Religion divides. God (relationship) unifies. Religion is worried about the externals. Relationship looks only at the inside. Religion has labels that separate. Relationship has but one label -- family.

If we cannot live our eschatology, who cares whether it is right or not? If it does not lead us to a high degree of integration in the midst of massive differentiation, then maybe we have yet to discover the true outcome and intent of Scripture?s fulfillment.

When I read some of the rancor produced on the Internet, I wonder when the last time was that the author sat down with the mother of a murdered child, a widowed spouse; the mother of four abandoned by her husband, a pregnant teen who is single and has been thrown out of her family. You just don't live in the trenches and write with a poison pen.

God always has responded to the humble and resisted the proud. He couldn't care less if someone has memorized Scripture in its entirety and has all the answers yet still 'passes by on the other side of the road' of those in need. When will we learn this? What will it take?

The call of LPM is to those who live in the trenches; the call is to those who want to use the next great theological revolution to bring about a social one of love. The world needs God and the message of His fulfilled redemption. Are we going to take it to them or just stand around arguing among ourselves over who is right and who gets the credit? It is time to move. It is time to lead.


Date:
08 Sep 2003
Time:
11:26:26

Comments

I agree with what you have said here. Bob hookedonchrist @ hotmail.com send me any news letter you may write.


Date:
18 Nov 2003
Time:
14:45:11

Comments

hi my name is max king to and i am 14 years old


Date:
17 Oct 2004
Time:
19:45:21

Comments

I actually think that this stuff makes sence. I think that Max King is brilliant. In my opinion he is the leading thinker on end time studies. Jimmy Allen


Date:
20 Dec 2004
Time:
12:16:12

Comments

Max was certainly a pioneer, but many of his thoughts were not expressed clearly. I think Don Preston is the foremost authority on preterist interpretation!


Date: 24 Apr 2005
Time: 14:48:31

Comments:

I have read Max's book "Cross and the Parousra" very closly and studied his insights against the scriptures that he referenced. It took a great deal of time to do it properly and I have to say that it has vastly changed my conseption of what I had been taught. I believe our culture shapes us into a mind set that can prevent one from seeing what is clearly written in the bible. After all, if the Jews did not accept Christ standing in thier mist, why would not we miss is appearing?

Date: 20 Mar 2006
Time: 13:55:11

Comments:

I was a carpenter living in Middlefield, Ohio and attending Warren Road Church of Christ in the early seventies. I met a wonderful young lady who was working for a doctor there in Middlefield and we shortly decided to stay together. It has been 30 years now, and it must be so that Max King pronounced us man and wife with this blessiing: "It was a marriage made in heaven." Thank you Max.


Date: 16 Oct 2006
Time: 18:01:36

Comments:

the words of god speak for them selves
max is right.
read the bible and let your heart open
REmember god had no religed/
rapature after rapature when will it end
thks Max K


Date: 08 Nov 2006
Time: 09:32:40

Comments:

When did Jesus receive all power and authority from God and over what? John 13:3, Matt 28:18


Date: 21 Feb 2013
Time: 15:53:01

Your Comments:

I believe in TM and would like to be included in any newsletter you might have concerning it as well as the LPM information. If you have such information you send out through email could you please send it to me.

Manuel Washington
mailto:sam2002@cox.net
706 North Main Street
Bentonville, Arkanas 72712
ph: 479-619-5964
 


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