John L. Bray
Evangelist/Author | Southern Baptist
| Author of "Matthew 24 Fulfilled"
-
12/10/10: Reclassified as "Modern Preterist"
“I
do not deny that Jesus Christ will come again at sometime in our
future. But what I do say is that
most, if not all, of
the Bible passages we have interpreted to refer to such a future
coming actually referred to the coming of Christ in judgment on
the nation of Israel in Ad 67-70. Jesus said the “parousia”
would occur in His generation, along with the other things the
disciples had asked Him about (Matthew 24:3, 34). It is
difficult to get any other interpretation out of this, even
though traditions have declared otherwise. It is the Bible
versus tradition on this matter, and one can draw his own
conclusions as to which one is right.”
(12/10 Biblical Perspectives) (HyP
Response: "He's is 89
years old, a little mixed up at times")
GREAT WHITE THRONE
JUDGMENT, THE GREAT SUMMATION OF THE FINAL JUDGMENT OF ALL MANKIND IS
NOT YET ; RESURRECTION OF BELIEVERS AFTER DEATH ; DEATH WILL ULTIMATELY
BE BANISHED | |
"When Jesus Christ "comes" and
sits upon the great white throne of judgment, this will not be a
"coming" to this earth, nor in any naturalistic, materialistic and
physical manner. This judgment will be accomplished in the spiritual
world, in another dimension than this materialistic natural world of
ours made up of earthly thrones and judicial councils. His reign and His
rule and his judgment are spiritual matters. The great summation of the
final judgment of all mankind is pictured in symbolic language in
Revelation 20:11-15. Those who are lost are "cast into the lake of
fire." Death and Hell, both intangible and abstract subjects, are
pictured as also being cast into the lake of fire. In these words we are
being told that Death and Hell will be no more. Death will ultimately be
banished. And hell which has captured the souls of men after bodies have
died, will be no more. This "second death" will have no power over God's
people forever; and God will be all in all!"
(Holds to a Future Resurrection)
"At death, which is not really death for the Christian (John 11:25-26),
we receive our heavenly bodies, so that we shall not be found naked, but
clothed upon (II Corinthians 5:4). This is our resurrection body! ' . .
and so shall we ever be with the Lord' (I Thessalonians 4:17)." (page
30)
"In May of 1980 a situation occurred which proved very embarrassing to me, but which turned out to be the beginning of a transformation in my ministry, as far as my views on eschatology were concerned. I had been invited to be with two churches in Germany -- one on Sunday morning, and the other for meetings Sunday night through Wednesday; then I was to go on to meetings in Egypt. The previous year I had preached at both churches, with meetings of several nights at Rheinland Baptist Church in Einsiedlerhof.. On Saturday, the day before I was to preach, both pastors met with me, and they seemed disturbed. The pastor of the church where I was to conduct meetings asked me, "Are you a 'pre-trib'? I asked him to define his terms, so that I would know exactly what he was asking. The other pastor immediately responded by asking me, "Do you believe the rapture takes place before the 70th week of Daniel?" At that time I still had not done much studying in the prophecies in Daniel, and as mentioned before, had not given any special study to that particular prophecy of Daniel 9:24-27. Certainly I had never preached on it nor did I have any plans to do so. I answered simply, "I don't know." As a result, and because I did not declare myself a "pre-tribulational rapture" preacher and would not agree that the rapture would occur prior to a tribulation period which according to one of them was presumably taught in Daniel 9, I was handed $200 and taken to the train station for Frankfurt. The pastor said, "No pre-tribulation rapture, no meetings!" Just like that! The pastor showed me that in this church's by-laws was a stipulation that one must believe in the pre-tribulation rapture to even belong to the church!" (Matthew 24 Fulfilled, 1996, pp. 280-281)
(On "Who is This Babylon")
"This is one of the most comprehensive books on New Testament eschatology that I have ever read. The book of Revelation is explained from the preterist perspective, and the author relates all of it to the Pauline epistles and Jesus' Olivet Discourse. While I would not agree with everything in the book (e.g. the nonliteral approach to the resurrection), it should settle many questions about the fulfillment of the book of Revelation. There are many good arguments for the early dating of Revelation. This book is a must for your library!" Evangelist John L. Bray, Lakeland, Florida
WHAT OTHERS HAVE SAID
Kenneth Kirkland
"The writings of one John Bray, a Baptist writer, strongly influenced Smith. John Bray preaches the twin doctrines of Amillennialism and Preterism. Larry Smith and I sharply disagreed, first, on the millennial, later, on past-trib. He spiritualized the thousand years of Rev. 20, placing the first resurrection (Rev. 20:4-6) all the way back at the beginning of the Church age. By doing so, the first resurrection is spiritualized." (The Past-Trib Blasphemy)
Justice Laurence
"Alarming to me is the fact that the present day upsurge of the twisted thinking of preterism is taking place largely, though not exclusively, among those who call themselves Baptists. Probably the most visible and vocal preterist today is John L. Bray of Lakeland, Florida who is a Southern Baptist evangelist. Bray’s book "The Rapture Of The Christian" is being mailed free to Southern Baptist pastors around the country and somehow a copy of it has fallen into my hands and I have recently finished reading it." (Preposterous Preterism)
James Lloyd
"As a case in point, a prominent preterist named
John L Bray refers to the Sodom and Gommorah passage where the Lord Himself says "I will go down now, and see whether they have dome altogether according to the cry of it" (Genesis 18:21). The reader will remember this is the famous passage where
Abraham sees "three men" that are apparently a manifestation of "the angel of the Lord" on their way to Sodom to destroy the place. Yet Bray (and other preterists) goes on to say that this action where the Lord says He will be directly involved in such things is not to be taken
literally — as he assumes this to be "highly symbolic language" (Matthew 24 fulfilled, J L Bray, page 176). Continuing this line of reasoning, Bray goes on to say that when the prophet
Micah refers to the Lord saying "...the mountains shall be
molten under him, and the valleys shall be cleft, as wax before the fire..." that such Old Testament scripture must be just a figure of speech.
Bray and the apostates called preterists can't seem to muster enough faith to believe that God actually does what he says. Like all the others caught in the same web of intellectual deceit,
John L Bray continually seeks to allegorize Old Testament accounts of the Lord's direct intervention as a way to show why they believe that Jesus does the same thing whenever He predicts spectacular events — catastrophic future events such as the time when "the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light" (Matthew 24:29).
A good example of this attempted scriptural distortion is found in a preterist book called
Matthew 24 Fulfilled. In this undiscerning work, Baptist pastor Bray coolly informs us that when God
promises to Moses concerning the Israelites "I am come down to deliver them" (Exodus 3:8), He doesn't mean that He will
literally be present. Yet my Bible has convinced me that God said "I will pass through the land of Egypt this night, and will smite all the firstborn..." (Exodus 12:11). The whole episode is in the first person, for to Israel, God says that "...when
I see the blood, I will pass over you" (Exodus 12:13)." (Scoffers: Preterists and II Peter 3)
RaptureMe
"When one closely examines MacDonald's vision, It becomes clear that her vision could not have been a pretribulation one. MacDonald looked for a "fiery trial which is to try us," and she foresaw the Church being purged by the Antichrist. Any pretribulation rapturist can tell you the Church will be removed before the advent of the Antichrist. John Bray, an anti-rapturist, said himself that Margaret MacDonald was teaching a single coming of our Lord Jesus. This contradicts current rapture doctrine that teaches a two staged event - Christ first coming for His Church and then seven years later His return to earth. With so many contradictions between MacDonald's vision and today's pretribulationism, I find it very difficult to see any linkage here." (Margaret McDonald Who?)
Andrew P. Sandlin
"In his booklet The Rapture of Christians, Southern Baptist evangelist John Bray unambiguously endorses the Hymenaen ("consistent preterist") heresy: the denial of the bodily, physical return of Christ and the bodily, physical resurrection of the saints.
I document this charge below. He holds that the Second Advent occurred on or about A. D. 70, and that the resurrection of the saints occurs at their death. In other words, he denies the physical return of Christ to earth in power and glory as well as the physical resurrection of the Christian. (What Bray really supports is not a resurrection, but a replacement.)
This is at variance with the Bible's teaching. It is also at variance with Christian orthodoxy, in other words, with Christianity. The doctrines of Christ's physical return and believers' physical resurrection are not secondary, though important, doctrines like baptism, millennialism, and church government. They are at the heart of Christianity. Christianity is not only a relationship with Jesus Christ (though it surely is not less than that)." (The Braying of Heretics (The Heresies of Bray)
"Dean" (2000)
"Preterist is a new word to me,but the idea is as old as reading history of the Greeks and Romans.I have always wondered why some people take the bible so personal as to think it was written just for them . I will forever be thankful for the day that I found out that I was one (a Preterist) and now the scriptures make a lot more sence when you read it in context of the time factor. I thank John L.Bray and his books,Matthew 24 Fulfilled and Bible Prophecy." (2000 Guestbook)
- Date:
- 13 Nov 2003
- Time:
- 17:44:34
Comments
I did not realize that I used to be a preterist,, cause I seem to believe everything John L Bray teaches. Have tried to awaken the Canadian TV Christian MIRACLE CHANNEL CJIL TV AT www.miraclechannel.ca> paul@insight@miraclechannel.camiraclechannel.ca Please request that John Bray be a guest on that channel.Thank uo. ffcott@cablerocket.com
- Date:
- 16 Dec 2003
- Time:
- 06:12:08
Comments
Subj: [shamireaders] Saddam Bound, by Israel Shamir Date: 12/15/2003 7:47:22 AM Eastern Standard Time From: shamir@home.se Reply-to: shamireaders-owner@yahoogroups.com To: shamireaders@yahoogroups.com Sent from the Internet (Details] We must pray for the salvation of Saddam. What a domino effect that would have on the world! A Day of Judgment for a Tyrant Martha Lucia www.watchmannetwork.org As I intently watched the news of the capture of Saddam Hussein and saw his photograph, the Lord brought to mind Isaiah 14: 15-17 (Amplified) “Yet you shall be brought down to Sheol [Hades], to the inmost recesses of the pit [the region of the dead]. Those who see you will gaze at you and consider you, saying, Is this the man who made the earth tremble, who shook kingdoms? Who made the world like a wilderness and overthrew its cities, who would not permit his prisoners to return home?” This passage in many ways exemplifies the events of today and the acts that Hussein carried out.
Date: 24 Jul 2006
Time: 16:04:38
Comments:
Jack Gibbert
Texarkana, Texas
Greatly appreciate your work "The Man Of Sin." Am dissapointed with the lack
of book, chapter and verse notations for your Josephus quotes. Page numbers
are of no help as there are many publishers of that work, please redo that
work and include "book, chapter and verse."
Date: 16 Oct 2006
Time: 20:32:05
Comments:
I ran into john Bray's material years ago. He maintained that there
would be no real thousand years reign on the earth. I sent him a letter
quoting Revelation 5:10 which says, "And hath made us unto our God kings
and priests: and we shall reign on the earth." I asked him how we could
reign on the earth if there no thousand years reign on the earth? He
never answered me. Clarence Odom
Date: 22 Jan 2007
Time: 10:44:57
Comments:
Dear Sir madam,
I came across a little bookletby John l bray"We need a rival and I was
very pleased with the sermons in it. I also see at the back of it an
order form for 44 of these little books.
I was wondering if these books can be purchased on line because I will
like to abtain all 43 these are books like heaven Hell Salvation,Launch
out into the deep, some scriptual certainties etc,
I will very much like to obtain these books I cant find them on line
could you direct me where to look so that I can get them. I hope they
are not out of stock. because these should never be.
my e- mail address is Venals64@hotmail.com be sure to let me know.
This is important to me and my salvation.
Date: 10 Feb 2007
Time: 09:58:19
Comments:
Clarence:
I could be that the four beasts and the 24 elders represent saved people
on earth. If that is true, then they represent those who reigned on
earth. That was then. In your and my case, we shall reign on earth,
also. Salvation has made us kings and priests, and however many years we
have left, we shall reign on earth until we die.
So, believe it or not, you are a king. Don't mess up!
mac@tribulationhoax.com
www.tribulationhoax.com
Date: 20 Feb 2007
Time: 04:42:44
Comments:
I WILL LIKE YOU TO INLUDE MY NAME TO YOUR MAILING LIST AND SEND ME SOME
OF YOUR MATERIALS I AM A STUDENT OF THE NIGERIA BAPTIST THEOLOGICAL
SEMINARY P.M B 4008 OGBOMOSO OYO STATE NIGERIA MY E MAIL IS
taiwooyedokun2@yahoo.com by for now and god bless
Date: 20 Feb 2007
Time: 14:41:38
Comments:
Revelation 5:10 says that we shall reign on the earth. It doesn't say
how long. Revelation 20:5 speaks of the souls of them that were killed,
and others who had not worshiped the beast... and they lived and reigned
with Christ 1000 years. Rev. 20 mentions a "thousand years" a number of
times, but the "thousand years" is never defined in the Bible as exactly
1000 years. The word, translated from the Greek, means only an
indefinite period of time.
the "thousand years" began in the days of Christ, or about AD70 at the
latest, and are continuing until the end times.
Mac
mac@tribulationhoax.com
www.tribulationhoax.com
Date: 14 Aug 2007
Time: 17:40:52
Comments:
I believe Evangelist John L. Bray is right in the book Matthew 24
Fulfilled.Elder Kenneth R. Parker
Date: 09 Sep 2007
Time: 13:27:51
Comments:
John Bray is an example of "Thinking Conservatives," a group of
expanding believers, simply because they choose to 'think.' Thinking
seems to be a lost art among the dispensationalists.
Dave George
Date: 23 Dec 2007
Time: 12:00:44
Comments:
I was delighted with John L. Bray's Matthew 24 Fulfilled. The
protestants who are accusing him of heresy remind me of the catholics
who accused the protestants of heresy. The unveiled threat of a future
hell for Mr. Bray reminds me of the fires that the catholics prepared
for the protestants. Thank God that Mr. Bray, like the early
protestants, holds to the truth of God's word while rejecting the
traditions and fables of the established church...............Rick
Newton
Date: 11 Jun 2009
Time: 15:43:47
Your Comments:
I think that the Bible is taken out of context by these people who have
no revelation of God word. Why would the church leave the earth, if
Christ is coming (gr. becoming-appearing)for His bride. A church who has
been preparing for the great harvest of Souls that will inherit the
earth. Matthew 24 states that the ones taken will be like the days of
Noah. All the sinners, non believers perished and Noah and his family
left on earth. None of Us know the truth and the Gospels did not speak
of a rapture, not found in the Bible,or of the Church leaving other wise
Jesus would have told them, His (Disciples). Let's win Souls for Christ
a mandate given to us all. PW
Date: 11 Jul 2009
Time: 04:22:39
Your Comments:
After reading John L. Bray books the bible is no longer confusing to me
,Its all clear to me now when I compare his words with the bible.
Date: 04 Jan 2010
Time: 14:18:52
Your Comments:
I thank John L Bray is very well read and i agree with the Book Matthew
24 fulfilled The scripture makes more sence when you read it in context
to belive other wise you have to take the Bible out of context . I do
not believe in the Premillennialism . (I am a United Baptist MInister .
Elder Kenneth R> Parker .
Date: 02 Feb 2010
Time: 14:46:04
Your Comments:
There is little doubt that the events of 70 AD were at least a partial
fulfillment of prophecies in Matthew 24 et al. Yet we see that there has
been a flow of events for the past nearly 2,000 years that has obviously
been following the Book of Revelation so there is also little doubt that
the historical view has been true as well. How do you balance this. See
Dr. Jones' comments at www.Gods-Kingdom.org
Date: 25 Feb 2010
Time: 10:27:47
Your Comments:
The 70 weeks of years is Jewish (Hebrew) in nature. The Jews were set in
abeyance once the gospel went out to the gentiles, due to the Jews
refusal to accept Jesus.
Seventy weeks of years is 490 years. At the time of the abeyance, 463
years had passed. We are now in the "Time Of The Gentiles". When the
rapture occurs (Prior to the tribulation - 7 years), then the 'Time Of
The Gentiles' will be over and the 'Time of Israel' will resume. If the
Jews had excepted Jesus in about 70 AD, then those final seven years
before the millenium rule of Christ would have happened back in the
first century. But they didn't, therefore the above has to be correct.
The seventy weeks of years (490 years from the rebuilding of the temple
by Nehemiah)never included the gentiles.
Date: 26 Feb 2010
Time: 20:30:58
Your Comments:
John L. Bray is only a full preterist as far as the Second Coming is
concerned, but he, himself, has said that there are things yet to be
fulfilled. Not all Scripture prophecies have been fulfilled. The Son
still has to deliver the Kingdom to the Father and God become "all in
all". These are yet future and john L. Bray admits that. Only the Second
Coming, the ending of the Jewish Age and establishment of Christ's
spiritual kingdom, have been fully fulfilled.
Date: 20 Dec 2010
Time: 07:15:50
Your Comments:
I agree w/Pastor John Bray's conclusions in his book "Matthew 24
Fulfilled". He uses scripture and other secular historic resources
(including full documentation) to really get folks thinking! In fact, he
nearly exhausts the subject! Nevertheless, he offers a very scholarly
study on the subject of the destruction of Jerusalem and its
eschatological consequences. God bless John Bray!
Date: 27 Dec 2010
Time: 09:28:44
Your Comments:
the writings of John Bray and Mike Blume especially makes the Word of God
easy to be understood. Larry Smith's teaching along with others who have
in times past taught like these men makes sense of the Bible. I was raised
U.P.C.[Apostolic]and for the most part were taught in concerning [end
time] we had to go outside of the Bible to find answers. With the
teachings of men like these all people can finally search the scriptures
and understand what is meant, esp. concerning Matthew 24 and other end
time scriptures. It also opens the whole Bible to clearer understanding.
Daniel prophesied Gods' kingdom was going to fill the whole earth, and it
is through the church.
Steve Cornwell
Date: 12 Mar 2011
Time: 11:50:30
Your Comments:
Evangelist John L. Bray has been a long distance friend for many years. I
have a library of small books he has written over the years, but my
favoriate is Matthew 24 Fulfilled. Christians have "renued minds". John
challenges your mind. Probably for many he challenges what you heard in
Sunday School. Now, as an adult God tells us to search the scriptures.
This you should do; then tell John where he is in error. John is a humble
man and he closes his Matthew 24 Fulfilled writing by saying "I do not
believe I have all the truth. What I am saying here is that I am not
closing my mind to any new understanding of truth which God lets develop
in my mind. You tell him what the Bible says as he has told you. "the
foolish and the dead alone never change their opinions." James Russell
Lowell.
Date: 06 Jun 2012
Time: 04:44:18
Your Comments:
John Bray has made a surprising, refreshing difference in the formation
of my eschatological views and views of prophecy. Although I do not
entirely agree with him on all topics, it has been a sustaining and
illuminating experience to go through his views on prophecy and some
fallacies of rapturist and eschatological interpretations. Labels don't
matter and I can only struggle to come to terms with malignant labeling
as "braying of heretics". Bray has certainly influenced my understanding
on the complexity and versatileness of Biblical prophecy. I do heartily
credit him for this.
Date: 06 Aug 2012
Time: 22:51:17
Your Comments:
L Bray has brought so much perspective to the bible. What never used to
makes sense make sense now. He is referred to as a heretic by some. Well
then I stand by him as one! If that's what a believer of the truth is
called. Funny how people are so caught up in the way they believe about
something that their brains are completely closed off to the concept of
something else. They judge and slander without actually using their
brain and putting some thinking into what some one (in this case, Bray)
is stating. Bray thank you for your dedication in the study on this
topic. It has been said that your thinking is a little mixed up at your
old age but I would like to remind the person who said that, that the
bible says with age comes wisdom; Job is full of examples...
Date: 06 Aug 2012
Time: 22:51:17
Your Comments:
L Bray has brought so much perspective to the bible. What never used to
makes sense make sense now. He is referred to as a heretic by some. Well
then I stand by him as one! If that's what a believer of the truth is
called. Funny how people are so caught up in the way they believe about
something that their brains are completely closed off to the concept of
something else. They judge and slander without actually using their
brain and putting some thinking into what some one (in this case, Bray)
is stating. Bray thank you for your dedication in the study on this
topic. It has been said that your thinking is a little mixed up at your
old age but I would like to remind the person who said tDate: 02 Aug
2012
Time: 21:49:50
Your Comments:
I was reading John L. Bray's book Matthew 24 Fulfilled, and it went into
great detail about everything, I have repented from a premillenial
background, I wold like to know or have reccomendations on something
that goes through Matthew 24:40-42 "Then shall be two in the field; the
one taken, and the other left. Two women shall be grinding at the mill;
the one shall be taken, and the other left." I never could connect this
to AD 70, but it makes sense to me that it had to have happened then,
otherwise Jesus words are like a jigsaw puzzle, and I refuse to believe
that anymore. Can anyone reccomend a book that goes into this in more
detail? Also, I was looking for the book in Mr. Bray's bibliography 5
hours to a better eschatology by George M. Bowman but I can't seem to
find it anywhere, and googled mr. bowman's name and found he passed on.
Is it a book, or a series of lectures? Has anyone heard of it, and does
anyone know where to find it?
Please let me know if you can
Thanks for what you all do
Jasonhat, that the bible says with age comes wisdom; Job is full of
examples...
Date: 13 Sep 2011
Time: 17:48:32
Your Comments:
If Revelation was written after 70 AD, why were there 2 different
numbers used to calculate the same beast in Revelation 13:18 (616 and
666) which pointed to Nero?
What purpose would it serve for John to tell the first readers of his
prophecy to "calculate" the number of the name of the beast if he was
not to be born until 2000 years later?
If God has 2 different plans for jews and gentiles, why does Paul say
there isn't any more distinction (Romans 10:12, Galatians 3:28,
Colossians 3:11)?
Why did Jesus break the wall of partition between jews and gentiles
(Ephesians 2:14) if there is going to be a partition in a future
millennium?
Date: 13 Sep 2011
Time: 17:38:48
Your Comments:
WELL BEING ONE OF THOSE GOOFY PRETERIST I WOULD AGREE
WITH John Bray. THE FUTURIST HAVE NO ANSWERS THAT HOLD ANT WATER WHAT
SOEVER AND EVERY TIME YOU TURN AROUND ONE OF THEM IS RELATING A WORLD
EVENT, OR ATMOSPHERIC CONDITION TO BIBLE PROPHECY. WHAT A JOKE
ON CHRISTIANITY. PRETERISUM IS THE ONLY SENSIBLE WAY
TO INTERPRET SCRIPTURE FOR TODAY. AND JOHN BRAY YOU
GO MAN!!!
Date: 01 Sep 2011
Time: 02:29:51
Your Comments:
I am also a preterist. The revelation of scripture became so much easier
after reading David Chiltons book "Days Of Vengence" and "Paradise
Restored" I am looking forward to reading John L. Bray as well. I am a
Ordained Assembly Of God Minister. Kind of lonely out here. God is
gracious.
Date: 15 Jan 2011
Time: 08:17:03
Your Comments:
i think he's right on target and lines up with the word. i would like a
copy of matthew 24 fulfilled.
Date: 27 Dec 2010
Time: 09:28:44
Your Comments:
the writings of John Bray and Mike Blume especially makes the Word of
God easy to be understood. Larry Smith's teaching along with others who
have in times past taught like these men makes sense of the Bible. I was
raised U.P.C.[Apostolic]and for the most part were taught in concerning
[end time] we had to go outside of the Bible to find answers. With the
teachings of men like these all people can finally search the scriptures
and understand what is meant, esp. concerning Matthew 24 and other end
time scriptures. It also opens the whole Bible to clearer understanding.
Daniel prophesied Gods' kingdom was going to fill the whole earth, and
it is through the church.
Steve Cornwell
Date: 20 Dec 2010
Time: 07:15:50
Your Comments:
I agree w/Pastor John Bray's conclusions in his book "Matthew 24
Fulfilled". He uses scripture and other secular historic resources
(including full documentation) to really get folks thinking! In fact, he
nearly exhausts the subject! Nevertheless, he offers a very scholarly
study on the subject of the destruction of Jerusalem and its
eschatological consequences. God bless John Bray!
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