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American Preterist Universalism

IS A "FATHER OF AMERICAN UNIVERSALISM" ALSO A "FATHER OF FULL PRETERISM"?  ACCORDING TO MANY DEFINITIONS OF FULL PRETERISM, YES

 

"Christ's Second Coming in AD70" Seen as Universalist Doctrine

"Professor Bush is, I perceive, a favourite writer with him. He is also a favourite with the American Universalists, a body which boasts of numbering among its adherents above 600,000 individuals, and which happens to agree with my friend in his notion of Christ's second coming being past." Dr. Thom

A FULLER PRESENTATION OF THE HISTORY OF PRETERIST UNIVERSALISM:

The (New) History of Full Preterism (Part Two) (WMV File)


Max King admitted his acceptance of Universalism to Ward Fenley: "Obviously if according to Ward in his interview with Sam and Jason that Max has admitted his acceptance of Universalism to Ward face to face there is no doubt where he now stands."

(Full Preterist) Sam (Frost)'s view of "all in Adam" does indeed logically conclude with universal redemption. And if this is Max's view in CP (I am not saying it is or it isn't, but if it is) then it is completely understandable why it led him to universalism." (http://deathisdefeated.ning.com/profiles/blogs/is-the-body-of-christ-no)

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The Universalist and Ladies' Repository (1843)

"We are amused to see how earnestly to see how earnestly polemics writers now urge to against Millerism the very reasoning they scorned a short time since as absurd because used by Universalists !.. We give one specimen, from a late publication, of the adoption of our method of interpreting several prophetical passages : - 'Christ's second coming was at, or about the time of the destruction of Jerusalem, A.D.70.'" (pp. 294-296)
 

 

Preterist Universalism

Earliest Full Preterism Developed Among American Universalists // Doctrinal History Can Be Traced Back to the 18th Century

All relevant forms of Unlimited Redemption related to the Preterist paradigm are under consideration here, especially modern forms such as of Pantelism and  Infinite / Common / Comprehensive/ Absolute Grace, Ultimate Reconciliation, etc. The works and solutions of other ex-Universalists will be considered here, as well.

"The Second and Only Coming of Jesus in AD70" View Seen as Universalist Doctrine

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Hosea Ballou

Introduction

After ten years of dedicated searching, the earliest roots of Full Preterism have revealed themselves in the writings of the American Universalists - a group which boasted a membership of over half a million.   Universalists tend to believe that atonement is received by all in Jesus Christ regardless of one's state of belief.   Universalist Preterism specifically focuses on the destruction of Jerusalem in AD70 as being the exhaustion of God's judgment, and also being a fundamental proof  of the universality of the world's presence in the "New Heavens and Earth" and "The Age About to Come" ever since that time. 

As to why Preterist Universalism may have found its roots in America, church historian George Emerson may offer a clue.   He suggests that, as opposed to the emergence of the Universalist denomination out of the architecture of the previously existing religious establishment in Europe, "the Universalist denomination here in the United States began with nothing" ("Ebenezer Fisher", p . 92).   The liberty to construct a diligently consistent system from the ground up seemed to have freed American Universalists from the shackles of the Futurism which crippled the European counterpart.

In addition to seeing the organic development of Full Preterism in Universalist writings, the trend is revealed to operate in the other direction, as well.  The earliest known FP author, Robert Townley, converted to Universalism shortly after the publication of his book in 1845. (PDF File) Considering how this trend is also apparent in the FP movement of today, Townley becomes a key figure in dissecting the correlation between Preterism and Universalism.   Generally, all Preterist Universalism is classified as "Hyper" Preterism, though some hold to a future resurrection.

For a while, a great deal of this material was withheld out of concern for what is, in my personal opinion, the potentially damaging effects of Universalist doctrine upon a person who is uncertain about where they stand regarding a proper view of the redemptive work of Jesus Christ (I suppose a Calvinist might say the same thing about Arminianism) ; however, it finally seemed time for a general release of these revelations on the website -- so that each may be equipped to decide for themselves what, if any, connection there is between the "AD70 Terminus" view of Full Preterism, and the Unlimited Atonement view of Universalists.
 

"And if he shall come again, in like manner, it must take place at a definite time, and that definite time will be the day of judgment, will it not? Oh, but, says the Universalist, I believe he did come, and in so coming, the promise of the two angels was fulfilled, and the day of judgment is past. But when we enquire, did he come, and what was the day of judgment? Why, says one, he came at the time of the destruction of the city of Jerusalem by the Romans, about forty years after his ascension." (1839: The Anti-Universalist, p. 80)

  • Dismissed for Facebook 'like' of Rob Bell "For many traditional Christians, though, Bell's new book sounds a lot like the old theological position of universalism — a heresy for many churches, teaching that everyone, regardless of religious belief, will ultimately be saved by God. And that, they argue, dangerously misleads people about the reality of the Christian faith."

Hosea Ballou
(On the Resurrection)
"The arguments now designed will go to show that the scriptures make use of words signifying a resurrection, in a figurative sense, when nothing beyond this mortal state is intended, that the passage under consideration is of this description ; and that it is proved to be so by comparing it with other passages which evidently have their application in time, and also by comparing it with passages which speak of a resurrection into an immortal state, by observing the difference there is between the two classes. (A Series of Lecture Sermons, p. 339)

"Will the hearer now say that all this may be, and that both Daniel and the Saviour were speaking of the resurrection of mankind to a state of immortal happiness and misery in a future world ? To this we reply, when Jesus spoke to his disciples of the destruction of Jerusalem, and of the calamities which should shortly come on the Jews, he uses the words of Daniel nearly verbatim when he speaks of the time of trouble. By this circumstance we are instructed that both Daniel and the Saviour spake of the same time, and of the same events, and that that time was when Jerusalem was destroyed by the Romans.

"The true meaning of the words of Jesus and of the passage in Daniel appears to be this : those Jews who listened to the mild voice of the gospel, proclaimed by Christ and his Apostles, came forth from spiritual death to the life of faith in the new covenant; but those Jews, who rejected the doctrine of salvation, crucified the Saviour, and persecuted his apostles, were those who had done evil, and they were roused from the dormant state in which they lay, as in a covenant of death and a refuge of lies, by the voice of judgment, and come forth to the resurrection of that condemnation which is so particularly pointed out in the 24th and 25th chapters of Matthew ; and which was illustrated in our lecture on that subject." (ibid., p. 342)

(1804 - Notes on the Parables of the New Testament: Scripturally Illustrated and Argumentatively Defended)
"In Matt 12:31, 32 (neither in this world nor in that which is to come), "world" means dispensation; "this" world, the legal priestly dispensation; and "that which is to come," the gospel.”

"Nothing can be more evident than that what Jesus and his disciples meant by the end of the world was the end of the Jewish polity and their destruction by the Romans.” (p. 81)

“The wrath to come,’ of which John spake, when he said ‘who hath warned you..’ is speaking of the destruction of the Jews and their city, he said ‘For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.” (p. 17)
 

(1811 - A Treatise on the Atonement)
“If Christ is to be understood as he said, if his words explain his meaning, it is clear, that his coming in his glory.. was some time in the life-time of those to whom he spake.

"If this be true, which my opponent with his eyes open, will not dispute, then no objection can be stated, from this parable, against the final holiness and happiness of all men."

“We are informed, that Christ came once in the end of the world, to put away sin. The world, of which Christ came in the end, was undoubtedly the dispensation of the legal priesthood."

(1820 - A Series of Letters in Defence of Divine Revelation)
"Nor need I speak of Moses who foretold the dealings of God with the house of Israel as if he had lived now and had written their history. But I must insist on your paying some nice attention to the prophesies of Christ concerning the destruction of Jerusalem. This prophesy is recorded very circumstantially in the 24th of Matt. Be so good, sir, as to compare this prophesy with the history written by Josephus and let candor decide whether the author of that prophesy was divinely inspired, or whether he was a poor deceived enthusiast."

"What you say on the subject of prophecy, does not appear to me, either to reflect any light on it, or to call up any question of importance. Your query whether the books of the New Testament were not written after the destruction of Jerusalem, which would suppose that the prophecy of the destruction of that city was written after the events took place of which the prophecy speaks, is an old suggestion in which I am unable to see any thing very reasonable. And I will remark here, that men who seem to lay an uncommon claim to reason, ought to make use of it when arguing on such momentous subjects. What difference would it make whether St. Matthew wrote his gospel before, or after the destruction of Jerusalem, as it respects the prophecy which Jesus delivered concerning it? You allow St. Matthew to be an honest man. You do not doubt then but Jesus did deliver such a prophecy before his death, which was certainly before the destruction of the city. Then surely it makes no difference whether the prophecy was committed to paper before, or after the fulfilment of it. Besides, you seem to urge the _silence_ of St. John on the subject as unfavourable to the account, because he wrote his gospel after Jerusalem was destroyed. As to interpolations which you think might have found their way into the gospels, it appears to me, sir, that a candid consideration of this subject would issue in this conclusion; if any important interpolations had been admitted, they would have produced such a disagreement as to effectually destroy the validity of the books; for if one heresy could be indulged, it is reasonable to suppose that another would be, and so on, which in room of allowing us the scriptures in their present consistent form, would either have destroyed their existence altogether, or have varied so as to confound their ideas."

Chris Camillo
"As preterists, we also know that the "Kingdom" was finished at the parousia (AD 70) because the "gospel of the Kingdom" reached "all nations" (Matthew 24:14) and "all creation" (Colossians 1:23) and "the whole world" (Colossians 1:6) BEFORE the parousia. Of course, Paul also plainly stated that "ALL Israel (including the full number of the gentiles)" were saved at the parousia (Romans 11:25-26).  Just like the "time statements" clearly pointed to the parousia within the apostolic generation (Matthew 24:34), these other passages show that there was no more place for anyone else in the Kingdom of God after AD 70 and that only "the house of Jacob" were its participants." Gentiles and Animals

Rev. Parsons Cooke
"
Some recent authors have expressed much surprise, that Universalists of the present day should apply so many passages of the New Testament to the destruction of Jerusalem. To name no other, Rev. Parsons Cooke speaks 'of the credulity of those who embrace the system of Universalism,' in believing 'that so large a part of the Bible should relate to the destruction of Jerusalem.'  'If ever I succeeded,' says he,' in digesting the monstrous absurdity, I would be honest enough to call things by right names, and label the New Testament, "JERUSALEM'S DESTRUCTION FORETOLD." (Quoted by Whittemore in Notes on Parables, p. 316)

David Embury
 "If Animals = Gentiles = Israelites, and “all Israel shall be saved”, then that must mean that all Gentiles are duly saved. Even science would agree with this... evolution says we are all animals therefore we must all ultimately be Israelites... thus all saved. So, as it turns out  universalism must really be true!!" Animals and Gentiles

Dr David Thom
"Professor Bush is, I perceive, a favourite writer with him. He is also a favourite with the American Universalists, a body which boasts of numbering among its adherents above 600,000 individuals, and which happens to agree with my friend in his notion of Christ's second coming being past."

 

WHAT OTHERS HAVE SAID

Wikipedia
"Ballou has been called the "father of American Universalism," along with John Murray, who founded the first Universalist church in America. Ballou, sometimes called an "Ultra Universalist," differed from Murray in that he divested Universalism of every trace of Calvinism, and opposed legalism and trinitarian views."


 

Books on Preterist Universalism

Universalism in America, Volume II : Bibliography "And having satisfied our minds respecting the time of the coming of the Son of man to judge and reward men according to their works, and being assured that that event took place when Jerusalem was destroyed, and the Jews dispersed; it remains an easy task to settle the question respecting the meaning and fulfillment of all the passages in the New Testament which speak of that judgment, and the awful calamities which fell on the people. But we must always keep in mind the fact that all those scriptures were fulfilled in that generation in which Jesus and his disciples lived." (Hosea Ballou, 1805 - Treatise on the Atonement) | Tentmaker Books

  • 1804 : Hosea Ballou - Notes on the Parables "Will the reader now say that all this may be, and that both Daniel and the Saviour were speaking of the resurrection of mankind to a state of immortal happiness and misery in a future world? To this we reply, when Jesus spoke to his disciples of the destruction of Jerusalem and of the calamities which should shortly come on the Jews, he uses the words of Daniel nearly verbatim, when he speaks of the time of trouble. By this circumstance we are instructed that both Daniel and the Saviour spake of the same time and of the same events, and that time was, when Jerusalem was destroyed by the Romans."

  • 1805 : Hosea Ballou - Treatise on the Atonement  "And having satisfied our minds respecting the time of the coming of the Son of man to judge and reward men according to their works, and being assured that that event took place when Jerusalem was destroyed, and the Jews dispersed; it remains an easy task to settle the question respecting the meaning and fulfillment of all the passages in the New Testament which speak of that judgment, and the awful calamities which fell on the people. But we must always keep in mind the fact that all those scriptures were fulfilled in that generation in which Jesus and his disciples lived."

  • 1819: Hosea Ballou - Select Sermons Delivered on Various Occasions "In his account of the destruction of the Jews, and of the vengeance of God upon them, Jesus was particular in his reference to what had been written on the subject ; he says, "For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.. the whole is confined to that generation ; and not the least intimation of punishment in a future state of existence."

  • 1824 : John Samuel Thompson - Prophecy Fulfilled. Or, Destruction of Jerusalem and Dispersion of the Jewish People

  • John Samuel Thompson:  Christ's Coming in Judgment (1825) PDF Here Added: "This prophecy fixes the time of Christ's coming before the destruction of the second temple, which by the Romans under Vespasian, was levelled with the ground."   [One of the clearest early expressions of Hyper-preterist Universalism.]

  • 1826 : Thomas Brown A History of the Origin and Progress of the Doctrine of Universal Salvation "I shall now prove, and prove only from the scriptures, that this was the end of the world, the end of the age, the day of judgment, and "the days of vengeance, that all things which are written by Moses and the prophets might be fulfilled."  And the hell that people have so long been talking about was in Jerusalem." "Now the whole just amounts to this, that the only way to prove a hell of endless punishment, must be to prove that what is said by the prophets.. means endless punishment.  If that can be done, then we must, to our great grief and sorrow, and to the sorrow of all good men, give up Universal Salvation.  .. I conclude that no man of sense and learning will ever undertake it, nor to find a law that ever threatened such punishment for sin, then we have gained the victory, the great and long controversy is decided."

  • 1832: Thomas Whittemore: Notes and Illustrations of the Parables of the New Testament "Some recent authors have expressed much surprise, that Universalists of the present day should apply so many passages of the New Testament to the destruction of Jerusalem. To name no other, Rev. Parsons Cooke speaks 'of the credulity of those who embrace the system of Universalism,' in believing 'that so large a part of the Bible should relate to the destruction of Jerusalem.'  'If ever I succeeded,' says he,' in digesting the monstrous absurdity, I would be honest enough to call things by right names, and label the New Testament, "JERUSALEM'S DESTRUCTION FORETOLD."

  • 1833: Walter Balfour - Letters to Moses Stuart (1833) The following letters, were published in the Universalist Magazine, in the years 1820, and 1821, and signed ' An Inquirer after truth.1 They were addressed to MoSes Stuart, associate Professor of Sacred Literature, in the Theological Seminary at Andover. In presenting them to the public, now in a small book, and with my real name affixed to them, a brief statement of the circumstances which gave rise to them, seems to be necessary. Without this, some might suppose, they were written since I became a Universalist, whereas they were expressly written to avoid becoming one."  (Pastoral partner of the earliest known FP author, Robert Townley, who converted to Universalism shortly after the publication of his book in 1845. (PDF File))

  • 1839 : Josiah Priest - The Anti-Universalist - Displays Preterist Universalism's arguments based upon past fulfillment : "And if he shall come again, in like manner, it must take place at a definite time, and that definite time will be the day of judgment, will it not? Oh, but, says the Universalist, I believe he did come, and in so coming, the promise of the two angels was fulfilled, and the day of judgment is past. But when we enquire, did he come, and what was the day of judgment? Why, says one, he came at the time of the destruction of the city of Jerusalem by the Romans, about forty years after his ascension." (The Anti-Universalist, p. 80)

  • 1843 : Adin Ballou - The True Scriptural Doctrine of the Second Advent, an Effectual Antidote to Millerism "The "second coming," "appearing," or "revelation," of Christ, in his regal and judicial glory, took place about the time of the final dispersion of the Jews, at the end of the Mosaic age. The general resurrection and day or age of judgment, then commenced in the invisible world, denoted to mortals only by the remarkable signs, terrors, and dreadful events, attendant on the destruction of Jerusalem. Then all departed souls in Hades came forth, clothed with immortality, before the judgment seat of Christ, they that had done good to the resurrection of life, and they that had done evil unto the resurrection of condemnation. The patriarchs, prophets, apostles and saints, who had previously finished their course on earth, and were resting in hope, then entered into their glory in the resurrection of the just." (p.3)

  • 1843 : Thomas B. Thayer - Universalist Miscellany The "Coming" "Appearing" "Revelation" &c. in Scriptural Usage - "These passages show that the revelation of Christ in judgment was, very near, on the eve of opening when the revelator wrote, which, as we have said, was immediately preceding the event, about A. D. 69; and the destruction of Jerusalem took place about two years after, A. D. 70, so fulfilling all the predictions of Christ and his apostles." 

  • 1845 : Dr. David Thom - Three Grand Expositions of Man's Enmity to God  Thom's Response to Robert Townley (earliest known Full Preterist), who converted to Universalism shortly thereafter. "Professor Bush is, I perceive, a favourite writer with him. He is also a favourite with the American Universalists, a body which boasts of numbering among its adherents above 600,000 individuals, and which happens to agree with my friend in his notion of Christ's second coming being past."

  • 1845 : Robert Townley Converted to Universalism Shortly Thereafter -  PDF File Excerpt from "Carlsbad Eschatology Conference" Notes

  • 1848: Thomas Whittemore: A Commentary on the Revelation of St. John, the Divine "For our part, we are willing to confess, that if a man believes the Apocalypse was not written until after the destruction of Jerusalem, and if he believes in the common notions concerning the day of God's wrath, the judgment of the dead, the great dragon, the bottomless pit, &c., &c., he cannot understand the book. He will be continually hampered by his pre-conceived system ; and, in harmony with such a system, no probable interpretation can be given. Although Professor Stuart has produced an excellent work upon the Apocalypse, — the most consistent and valuable, we think of any we've have ever seen, — yet he was manifestly troubled and warped in his judgment in interpreting certain parts by his theological system, or creed, especially his belief in endless misery, and the popular notions of a future judgment. "

  • 1848: Dr. David Thom: The Number and Names of the Apocalyptic Beasts: with an Explanation and Application (1848) "For many years I have rejected unhesitatingly, and on what seem to myself to be most valid and satisfactory grounds, the notion,— might I not even be justified in calling it the fable ? — of this Book having been composed towards the close of the first century, A. D. 95 or 96, or thereabouts. Evidence to substantiate this, which is the common opinion, is, it appears to me, totally a-wanting. Events connected with the destruction of Jerusalem, and the passing away, at that era, of the Old Testament economy, are in more than one part of it clearly and strikingly spoken of, as matters of future occurrence : and if so, it must have proceeded from the pen of inspiration before A. D. 69 or 70 ; unless we feel disposed to impute to the Holy Ghost the uttering of prophecies subsequently to their accomplishment. Can it be shewn satisfactorily, indeed, that any of the New Testament records were composed at a later period than the one which has just been indicated ? I believe not." (Thanks Universalist Archive!)

  • 1858: Lucius Paige: Selections from Eminent Commentators (1858) "Of course, it is not pretended that any one orthodox commentator explains every disputed text in accordance with the views entertained by Universalists. But among them ah, some have furnished us authority on every text of this description, with a very few exceptions; some furnishing authority on one text, some on another. The quotations are introduced, on each text, with reference to a single point; to wit, does this text teach or imply a state of misery in the future life, or does it not ? When any commentator allows that it does not, I consider him to be proper authority to quote in confirmation of the exposition given by Universalists, even though they do not agree with him in regard to what the text does mean. I will illustrate my meaning by a single example. By referring to the notes on Rev. vi. 12—17, it will be seen that Hammond and Lightfoot interpret the passage as descriptive of the ' destruction of Jerusalem and the whole Jewish state"

  • 1869: Richard Metcalf - Letter and Spirit (1869) "This was the second coming of Christ, which he foretold so vividly that its literal fulfilment must have given his disciples a still clearer proof of his Messiahship. The judgment with which he threatened the cities wherein most of his mighty works were done, came, as he said it would, in the lifetime of that generation. The judgment which Paul said was impending came within five years of the time when Felix trembled in view of it. The disciple whom Jesus loved did tarry till the coming of his Master; and all the Gospel predictions upon the subject were realized in that spiritual coming at the end of the Jewish age, between A.D. 65 and A.D. 70. Not the slightest hint is given of still another coming to be looked for in or after our day; for all that was meant by the second coming of Christ, the great day of judgment and the end of the world, took place eighteen centuries ago."

 

Articles on Preterist Universalism

  • Discussion on: Adam and “Death” to “all” men (2009) "Thus the above being true, God has no more enemies – and THIS makes logical sense with a consistent prêteristic hermeneutic.     Thus if as Pantelism contends – that in the AD70 Parousia of Christ the "last enemy" to be destroyed was "the death", and if along with this death the venom of "the sin" duly empowered by "the law" likewise suffered demise; and if further, God having reconciled all things in heaven and on earth to Himself through the blood of Christ's cross [Col 1:20]; THEN regardless of what you or I or anybody else thinks or reasons – God has no more enemies. Now even if in the ignorance or arrogance of some men's feeble thinking they consider themselves enemies of God, from HIS perspective they are not [Col 1:21].  Thus if we agree that "the last enemy to be destroyed was death" then consistency dictates God has no more enemies, period! And so… IF God has made peace, and the Scriptures testify He has, then who are we to question His gracious will?" (http://preterismdebate.ning.com/profiles/blogs/adam-and-death-to-all-men)

  • Books that Changed my Life: The Adventures of a Christian Hedonist "The journey that took me from believing in an eternal hell to Christian Universalism all started with the book, ‘Shades of Sheol: Death and Afterlife in the Old Testament’ by Philip Johnston.  I learned that Israelites were quite agnostic about what happened after death and did not have a firm belief in either heaven or hell.    The book ‘Jesus and the Victory of God’ by NT Wright, really showed me how Jesus’ predictions that many Christians believe are a future post-mortem Judgment actually refer to the destruction of Jerusalem in 70AD.  This is one of the best books on the purpose of Jesus based on the cultural context of 1st Century Israel."

  • Brian Simmons - What Hyper Preterists Don't Want You To Know (2008) "The consistent Preterist view holds that all salvation was perfectly consummated in A.D. 70.  Those born after A.D. 70 never needed salvation, for they were never under the Old Covenant... Therefore, if Hyper-Preterism is true, all men must be saved.  For the individual is really part of the universal.  Therefore, the universal effects of an A.D. 70 general judgment would cover individuals living past that event."

  • Dean Johnson - The Resurrection of All in All (2003) "Some call this Preterist theology, or fulfilled eschatology. In this view, there is a progression, a working out of a divine plan that is now fulfilled. This is a reasonable human understanding that can lead to a spiritual worldview that sees all as now completed within the Christ. Within this view, when all is fulfilled, the scriptures are unlocked and our interpretations and understandings are freed from the fetters of time and cultural restraints. "

  • The Case for Biblical Universalism: Preterist Eschatology (u/k) "Preterism still struggled to gain credibility within other Protestant countries, especially England. The English commentator Thomas Hayne claimed that the prophecies of Daniel had all been fulfilled by the 1st century (‘Christs Kingdom on Earth’, 1645), and Joseph Hall expressed the same conclusion concerning Daniel’s prophecies (‘The Revelation Unrevealed’, 1650), but neither of them applied their Preterist views to Revelation. However, the exposition of Grotius convinced the Englishman Henry Hammond. Hammond sympathized with Grotius’ desire for unity among Christians, and found his Preterist exposition useful to this end.[17] Hammond wrote his own Preterist exposition in 1653, borrowing extensively from Grotius. In his introduction to Revelation he claimed that others had independently arrived at similar conclusions as himself, though he gives pride of place to Grotius.[18] Hammond was Grotius’ only notable Protestant convert, and despite his reputation and influence, Grotius’ interpretation of Revelation was overwhelmingly rejected by Protestants and gained no ground for at least 100 years."

  • John Riffe - Revelation 20 & Universalism "I know you are busy, but could you take just a brief moment and fill me in on how you view the Rev. 20 passage and how a wrong view there can open the door to universalism. Being slow of mind, it will help me to get up to speed. So thanks so much for doing this. Don't take a lot of time, just a brief response."

  • John Samuel Thompson : Prophecy Fulfilled Or Destruction of Jerusalem and Dispersion of the Jewish People at the Second (1824) - Added to Bibliography

  • Robert Townley Converted to Universalism Shortly After Releasing Earliest Known Full Preterist Book in 1845 -  PDF File Excerpt from "Carlsbad Eschatology Conference" Notes

  • Yahoo Group: Preterist Universalism  - Here's my conundrum. Full Preterist holds these truths as I understand them; 1. God's wrath on man has been pacified through Christ sacrifice on the cross. The finality or icing on the cake being in 70 A.D.. Complete removal of the law that held us in bondage. 2. Satan with all his influence, was thrown into the abyss, being chained forever. This is part of all of the book of Revelation being fulfilled.  3. The resurrection has happened, all the dead has risen making Sheol an empty place. Here lies my conundrum. Why, oh why, do "Full Preterist" have such a hard time believing in universal salvation. What they/we teach goes further than a lot of universalist I know and correspond with. Some universalist believe Sheol/hell still exist holding the spirits of all who've gone before and they will not be released until the day of judgment, that is still yet to come. Then when judgment day arrives only those who believed in Christ will be released and those who don't will have to stay, being tormented, until they do. Kind of like putting someones arm behind their back until they cry uncle. This to me is asinine, making no since what so ever. I call it Eventual Salvation.  Anyway, what I'm suggesting you do, being a Full Preterist, is take another look at what happened to Satan in the last chapters of the book of Revelation. Bruce...the real Full Preterist!"

  • Bill's Bloggins "My personal blog with articles on Universalism, Preterism, the Holy Spirit, and my own personal commentary on books of the Bible"

  • DeanJohnsonMinistries.com

  • Infinite-grace.com

  • Pantelism.com (David Embury) "The understanding that the Scriptures, both prophetically and redemptively, are fulfilled in their entirety in the person and work of Jesus Christ the one to whom the whole of prophetic and redemptive history points. This fulfillment completed all Biblical eschatology, being demonstrated in Christ and His elect first-fruits saints end-of-the-age ministry, finding consummation in His prophesied Second Coming [Parousia] and Judgment upon the Old Covenant Mosaic world of the Law and Temple, circa AD70."

  • Presence.tv - cf. "Grace for All" Article

  • Tentmaker (Gary Amirault) "Our hope is that all who visit our internet site will come into a living personal relationship with their Maker, their Father through His Son, Jesus Christ, who sent the Holy Spirit to lead us into the Truth. Sooner or later all will come into this personal and eternal loving relationship with their Creator. "

  • Whatifound.info - The Connection "It seemed that every preterist group I came across was fully dedicated to the subject of Preterism but refused to even give a seconds attention to the idea that God would be interested in saving all of humanity. What’s even more puzzling to me is that most of the UR groups I am a member of couldn’t grasp the idea of all scripture being fulfilled. For me the more and more I study the more I find the two subjects to be completely inseparable! In fact I see that the fulfilled prophecies of scripture were the means to the the ultimate reconciliation of all things."


ONE SOLUTION TO THE PRETERIST "UNIVERSALISM CONUNDRUM"
"EVENTUAL GOSPEL UNIVERSALISM"
("
a reign of truth and righteousness on the earth" in the future where "all men" are saved)

"Surely, it was not in vain that Jesus said, ‘I am the Light of the World.’ ‘God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through him might be saved.’ ‘I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto myself.’" James Stuart Russell, The Parousia (emphasis in original)


James Stuart Russell

David Chilton on "Eventual Gospel Universalism" Here is Chilton before his conversion to full preterism (if his view qualifies.. that is what is under dispute regarding Sam's theology) and after:

(Before) ""It is certainly true that righteousness does not dwell in the earth in an absolute sense; nor will this world ever be absolutely righteous, until the final enemy is defeated at the Second Coming of Christ.. according to God's promise, the saving knowledge of Him will yet fill the earth, as the waters cover the sea." (Days of Vengeance, 544)

(Writing as an almost Full Preterist)  "Once the Lord came to destroy the scaffolding of the Old Covenant structure, the New Covenant Temple would be left in its place, and the victorious march of the Church would be unstoppable.  According to God's predestined design, the world will be converted; the earth's treasures will be brought into the City of God, as the Paradise Mandate (Gen. 1:27-28; Matt. 28:18-20) is consummated (Rev. 21:1-27)." (from "New Heavens and Earth")

ONE SOLUTION TO FP UNIVERSALIST CONUNDRUM IS PLACING UNIVERSAL CONVERSION FARTHER INTO THE FUTURE -- BUT DOES SUCH A GRAND FUTURE EXPECTATION (THE "PARADISE MANDATE" YET TO BE CONSUMMATED) STILL QUALIFY AS FULL PRETERISM?    IF THE BIBLE ANTICIPATES WORLD-WIDE CONVERSION.. WOULDN'T THAT BE A PROPHECY AS OF YET UNFULFILLED?

Samuel Frost's view that the kingdom came in the first century and yet that Jesus is now conquering the world through the gospel is much closer to traditional Christianity, and appears to have the endorsement of Dr. Talbot.  If Sam's "Ongoing Fulfillment" relates to the conquest of the Gospel over all nations, kings and religions, does that qualify as Full Preterism?

  • Mike Sullivan, David Green, Ed Hassertt: SAM FROST'S DEPARTURE FROM FULL PRETERISM INTO THE PARTIAL PRETERIST / PRETERIST IDEALIST WORLD OF TALBOT (9/10/2010) "In Sam’s end of the world article he claimed that Full Preterist’s understand the long ages of Isaiah 65 as teaching “spiritual abundance.” I followed this up with asking Sam if this meant that he changed his interpretation of the passage (to the FP one), or if he was being misleading in that he was still holding onto a PP Postmillennial (PPP) hermeneutic (it is spiritual [“spiritual abundance”] AND literal – the long ages will be seen as the passage is “fully manifested/fulfilled” over time).  Again, Sam dodged the question. How scholarly, respectful, and loving."
     

    • Sam Frost: "no Preterist has been able to say to me that 'nothing changes' when we physically die. In other words, it is correct to say 'I am glorified' today in the Body of Christ, as He is Glorified. However, is this glorification FULLY MANIFEST or APPARENT today? Now, ask yourself: will it be in heaven when I physically die? Will anything change? Will I still be the same, old bumbling Sam Frost that I am here on earth? Will I still be subject to occasional sin? Error? If not, why not? Do I get 'something else' in Heaven? It is not so much that we 'get' something else, but that that which WE HAVE (II Cor. 5.1-2) will be ENTIRELY in FULL OPERATION - FULL ON POWER. If this, then, is so, then one must concede the argument of 'fullfillment already - manifestation not yet' (my argument in a nutshell)."

    1. The kingdom would come as a mustard seed in the Parousia in AD 70.
    2. Then after the Parousia in AD 70, the kingdom will grow for untold thousands of years until it finally "fill[s] all the earth," in fulfillment of Daniel 2:35 and other prophecies.

DOES SUCH A GRAND FUTURE EXPECTATION (THE "PARADISE MANDATE" YET TO BE CONSUMMATED) STILL QUALIFY AS FULL PRETERISM?    IF THE BIBLE ANTICIPATES WORLD-WIDE CONVERSION.. WOULDN'T THAT BE A PROPHECY AS OF YET UNFULFILLED?

If "eventual gospel universalism" is true, then should we expect CHRIST'S TRIUMPHANT MARCH TO FIND FULFILLMENT IN THE FALL OF ISLAM? - Is Christianity expected to conquer over Islam on Earth one day? What would Bible prophecy suggest regarding the outcome of the 'Sovereign status' duel between Jesus and Mohammed? Is Jesus' kingdom of this world, or is He solely interested in saving souls while His competitors pillage His people? (Fb Port)

Let the saints be joyful in glory;
         Let them sing aloud on their beds.
Let
the high praises of God be in their mouth,
         And a two-edged sword in their hand,
To execute vengeance on the nations,
         And punishments on the peoples;
To bind their kings with chains,
         And their nobles with fetters of iron;
To execute on them the written judgment—
         This honor have all His saints.
Ps. 149

 

  • Sam Frost's Article About Isaiah 65  (2009) Full Preterist NCMI considers Frost's theology to be Universalism: "If the new heavens and new earth (which equals the new creation in Christ, and which also equals heaven, the land, the heavenly country, and the Holy Jerusalem) is synonymous with the new covenant age (the period of time that believers and non-believers alike are living in), then believers and unbelievers alike are in heaven. This is why I always agreed with Todd Dennis that RCM's particular brand of preterism demands universalism. If Sam's equation is true, then yes, pretersim = universalism."

 

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Date: 10 Jul 2009
Time: 21:41:57

Your Comments:

i think all these universalism writings is waisted time and junk


Date: 17 Apr 2010
Time: 00:28:11

Your Comments:

Thanks for posting this information. Unlike the other commenter, I find this information very useful and it is certainly not "wasted time and junk." Thanks again for your most valuable website. God Bless You!
 


Date: 22 Aug 2011
Time: 01:07:14

Your Comments:

I think that they are one of the doctrines that Revelations speak of that false prophets will raise up in the last days.. For instance they all seemingly are apostles.. ..Anyone who was not chosen and ordained by Jesus or part of the early Church Apostolic ministry having been ordained or received by the original Apostles is a FALSE prophet None of them has had the hands of a real Apostle laid upon them,, They do it to each other..


Date: 14 Aug 2011
Time: 21:33:04

Your Comments:

I cannot understand why anyone would believe portions of the Bible and twist other scriptures to read the way they want them to read.. i have studied Preterism extensively and just know it is a cult that is spoken of that would occur in the last days , even though it has been around for a long time.. One should let the Holy Spirit reveal to them what God is trying to say to us humans..


Date: 31 Aug 2011
Time: 23:30:47

Your Comments:

EVEN BACK IN THE TIME OF THE APOSTLES THEY BELIEVE THAT THE END TIMES AND CHRIST RETURN WAS CLOSE AT HAND. E. B. WHITE IN THE 1880'S CONCLUDED WRONGLY THAT THE 2ND COMING WOULD BE IN THAT BY GONE ERA.
WILLIAM MILLER IN DISREGARD OF THE WORDS OF CHRIST CALCULATED 3 TIMES THE 2ND COMING AND BECAUSE HIS PREDICTIONS WERE IN VAIN HAD TO LIVE HIS LIFE IN SECLUSION. THE 20TH CENTURY HAD IT'S PREDICTORS, THE JEHOVAH WITNESS RELIGION MODELED AFTER MILLER'S ADVENTIST HAD THE ASSUMPTION THAT THEIR RELIGION HAD FINE TUNED MILLER'S "PET DOCTRINES" BRINGING JW's TO PERFECTION WITH NO FORE THOUGHT THAT THEY WERE WHAT GOD'S DEFINITION OF RELIGION IS IN ROMANS 10:3-4 MADE THE SAME MISTAKE AS MILLER THE LAST PREDICTION BEING IN BACK IN THE '80'S AND WHAT OF THE LAST PREDICTION THAT FAILED THIS YEAR?
THESE SCHOLARS FAILURE WAS LEANING ON THEIR OWN UNDERSTANDING FOR ALL WERE WRONG BECAUSE THEY DISREGARDED THE FACT THAT ALL THE PROPHECIES THAT CAME BEFORE THE 2ND COMING HAD YET TO BE FULFILLED, THEIR VIEW THROUGH THE GLASS WAS INDEED DARK FOR THEY GAVE NO THOUGHT TO CHRIST PROPHECY OF THE DESTRUCTION OF JERUSALEM AND IT'S RETURN AGAIN AS A NATION. WHEN ISRAEL AGAINST ALL ODDS SUCCEEDED IN IT'S RETURN IN MAY 1948 AS A NATION THIS SIGNALED THOSE PREDICTIONS PROVING PAST PREDICTORS HAD JUMPED THE GUN SO TO SPEAK. SALVATION CAME FIRST TO THE JEW AND THEN THE GENTILE. DID THE JEW ACCEPT THE SALVATION OF CHRIST/ NO. DOES GOD LEAVE ANYTHING UNDONE? NO. WHEN ISRAEL WAS REBORN IT MEANT THAT GOD WAS FINISHING WHAT HE HAD STARTED AND HERE IS WHAT MAKES THE UNIVERSAL PRETERIST A WASTE OF TIME.


Date: 04 Jul 2013
Time: 06:41:07

Your Comments:

To my mind the 'Age to come' seems to fit the metaphor of a level playing-field. The OT was a seeming uneven playing-field where to be born of Abraham was to inherit the promises automatically and faith was almost incidental.

>From the time of John Baptist the internal and spiritual condition of 'repentance' not birth, was the leveller - "Make his paths straight, and every mountain laid low, and every valley filled in..and all flesh shall see God.' (Lk 3:5-6)

Here 'all flesh' means all people after the great white throne judgment in AD 70 'see' equates to seeing with understanding 'the eyes of the heart' (Eph 1:18). In this context it would not mean universal salvation, because Jesus New Covenant is the 'Law of the Heart and Mind', (Heb 8;10) which accords to a higher consciousness where an individual is accountable to himself for his intentions and choices.

This explanation seems consistent with a level playing-field where our judgment is determined personally and from within the individual, which is consistent with Natural Law which lies at the heart of our present legal system which right intention is able to be defended by right reason.

Between OT Age of Law (based on God's natural birth promise) and the New Age of Grace there was a gap. "I searched for a man who would stand in the gap for the land [people]". Ezek 22:30 Jesus' 'new spiritual second-birth' was the answer to bring the true believer's to the wedding table when the OT bridegroom God 'put away' OT harlot Jerusalem in factum (Jer 3:1-9) and through His son married the true bride New Jerusalem. (Rev 21:1-2)

For us today a personal relationship with God (the terms of entering into the kingdom of God) are unchanged. "Faith is the victory that overcomes the world." All of scripture teaches this emotional and intellectual purity of mind revealed in the spirit of prophecy and the spirit of Jesus. (Rev 19:10) Breadcrumb.
 


 


 

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