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Administrative - New Classification:
Progressive Full Preterism

This classification is a holding pen for reconsideration of works previously labeled as "Hyper Preterism".  Includes the works of nominal Full Preterists who have in actuality do not hold to the heretical dispensationalism of the teaching that "ALL Bible prophecy was fulfilled by AD70" -- Many mistakenly self-apply the label "Full Preterist" (Including "Postmillennial Paradise Preterists" such as David Chilton; or, "Immortal Body at Death" Preterists such as Arthur Melanson and Idealist/Eclectic Preterists such as Patrick Stone).
 

The "Immortal Body at Death" View of Full Preterism, in general, is under reconsideration for classification.  To be determined - this question: If the judgment and resurrection are said to be ongoing through the Christian Age, then doesn't that make "The Resurrection" unfulfilled in AD70?  If IBD can answer "yes" to that question, then perhaps it is not Hyper Preterism.

The view that the "Second Coming was in AD70" is also under review.  Orthodox commentators such as Hammond and Lightfoot taught as much -- yet while acknowledging a future coming to themselves.   The doctrine that the second and ONLY coming was in AD70 is heretical.

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Jerusalem as the Heart | Historical-Typological Method of Giblin

Annihilation?  Heaven Now?  Universalism?

By Arthur Melanson

We have been much impressed of late by the unalterable state of eternity. It is not so much the “eternal dimension” itself that draws our attention, but rather the finality of our spiritual condition after passing through physical death. Everything continues forever and ever whether it is the glory of God on one hand, or the punishment of the damned on the other. What we will be eternally is set in this life

Here’s a simple example. “Now to our God and Father be glory forever and ever. Amen.” (Phil. 4:20) This is not a religious platitude. It is not a Christian cliché (although we fear it has become that to some). Paul writes that truth because God supplies all the need of the Philippians according to His riches in glory by Christ Jesus. This brings glory to God forever and ever. It is an eternal glory that will never fade nor diminish.

Jesus taught the people that treasure in heaven was far better than the riches of this earth. “Do not lay up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth rust destroy and where thieves break in and steal; but lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust destroys and where thieves do not break in and steal. For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.” (Matthew 6:19-21)

Heavenly treasure endures forever and neither time or circumstance cannot alter it. It is eternally fixed.

There is a sentence that applies to everything that takes place on this earth. No matter what the occasion, no matter what the significance, no matter what the greatness or tragedy of the event, this sentence applies: “This, too, shall come to pass.” It’s true for this life; it’s not true of eternity. Men, failing to understand, try to impose the shifting sands of human events to the eternal dimension. It doesn’t work, and it’s not the testimony of the Bible.

The Bible warns us repeatedly to seek God while in this life. Why? Because in this life only can we make the choice to seek God and His salvation. “For man goes to his eternal home, and the mourners go about the streets. Remember your Creator before the silver cord is loosed, or the golden bowl is broken, or the pitcher shattered at the fountain, or the wheel broken at the well.” (Ecclesiastes 12:5-6)

Jesus Christ warned us over and over of the eternal consequences of our decisions. The divine warnings came because our choices fix our position in eternity. “Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it.” (Mt. 7:13, 14)

Consider Jesus’ account of the rich man and Lazarus. The rich man lived his life in selfish luxury, while Lazarus was the beggar at his gate. Both died. Lazarus went to Abraham’s bosom; the rich man was in torments in Hades. He pleaded with Abraham to help him alter his agonizing state. He wanted Abraham to send Lazarus to aid his torment. Abraham’s answer, related to us by Christ, is instructive.

“But Abraham said, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things; but now he is comforted and you are tormented. And besides all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed, so that those who want to pass from here to you cannot, nor can those from there pass to us.’” (Lk. 16:25-26) The “great gulf fixed” speaks to the unalterable state of both the good and the bad.

Many Christians don’t realize these things, and they begin to believe in ideas from men that contradict the truths of the Bible. In each and every case these “ideas” confuse the shifting sands of this life with unalterable eternity. They want us to believe that even in eternal dimensions “this, too, shall come to pass.”

Consider the “ideas” of annihilation (the wicked don’t go away into everlasting punishment as Jesus taught, but are instead destroyed); heaven now (Christians are in “heaven now” via covenantal change rather than physical death); universalism (all human beings will eventually be saved). All of these “ideas” are false. All these “ideas” fail to recognize the unalterable, eternal state.

Jesus Christ on the eve of the great white throne judgment put it this way: “He who is unjust, let him be unjust still; he who is filthy, let him be filthy still; he who is righteous, let him be righteous still; he who is holy, let him be holy still.” (Rev. 22:11)

Dr. John MacArthur comments on the above verse: “Those who reject God’s warnings will fix their eternal destiny in hell, where they will retain their evil and filthy natures for all eternity. Those who respond to the warnings will fix their eternal destiny in glory and realize perfect righteousness and holiness in heaven.” [The MacArthur Study Bible, pg. 2025]

 

Rev. Arthur Melanson is host of the Joy of the Lord Christian talk radio program aired over WTMR Camden/Philadelphia each weekday morning at 10:00 – 11:00.

The Joy of the Lord is, since 1977, a Christian teaching, preaching, prophecy, writing, counseling, and listener call-in ministry.

Arthur Melanson may be reached at P.O. Box 237, Audubon, NJ 08106

What do YOU think ?

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Date:
20 Apr 2002
Time:
17:03:29

Comments

I wonder, in your opinion, is the crossing of the Jordan river typologically significant as an analogy of physical death or of spiritual birth? Is it not a picture of redemption? Is it not also a picture of resurrection? We have both in Christ at this time (they are the same thing). We cross into the land of promise and rest once we are redeemed.


Date:
21 Apr 2002
Time:
09:33:27
Remote User:

Comments

Anyone who quotes MacArthur in support of their views is highly suspect to me.


Date:
21 Apr 2002
Time:
19:16:09
Remote User:

Comments

John 3:16 (young's literal translation) "for God did so love the world, that His Son—the only begotten—He gave, that every one who is believing in him may not perish, but may have life age-during." Strong Concordance is clear. The word "perish" is G622 From G575 and the base of G3639; to destroy fully (reflexively to perish, or lose), literally or figuratively:—destroy, die, lose, mar, perish. While men like Melanson, who support the doctrine of "eternal" punishment, refuse to admit that it can be easily shown that in almost all cases the Bible is clearly teaching "destruction." Oh, Well, Preterist do always run into the same kind of stubborness when attempting to show that Scripture clearly teaches the second coming within the lifetime of The Lord's contemporaries, no?


Date:
21 Apr 2002
Time:
19:18:10
Remote User:

Comments

Melanson also teaches that God created evil. So beware.


Date:
22 Apr 2002
Time:
10:56:30
Remote User:

Comments

very interesting. Melanson quotes MacArthur--a man who considers him (as a Preterist) to be a heretic!


Date:
23 Apr 2002
Time:
07:19:29
Remote User:

Comments

Jesus DID NOT teach the unbelievers would go into "everlating torment." Even in the verse Melanson quotes Jesus uses the word "destruction" and if Melanson would use his concordance instead of rhetoric, he will see it mean--"perish!" utterly and completely.


Date:
19 May 2002
Time:
13:45:16

Comments

Jesus did not teach the unbelievers will go into everlasting torment? <p> "The devil, who decieved them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever" (Rev.20:10) <p> Now, what does Paul warn physical beings about in I Tim.3? <p> "A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, temperate, sober-minded, of good behavior, hospitable, able to teach; not given to wine, not violent, not greedy for money, but gentle, not quarrelsome, not covetous; one who rules his own house well, having his children in submission with all reverence...; not a novice, lest being puffed up with pride he fall INTO THE SAME CONDEMNATION AS THE DEVIL" (I Tim.3: 2-4,6). <p> Jonathan


Date:
04 Jun 2002
Time:
12:46:08

Comments

Isaiah 45 7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things Melanson doesn't teach that God creates evil - the bible does.


Date:
18 Jun 2002
Time:
06:05:52

Comments

I admire Melanson's writings and, for the most part, agree with them. However, I sometimes feel that the same exegesis that brought Melanson and others to preterism is abandoned when it comes to eternal conscious punishment. The OT says in many spots that death is a lack of consciousness. Those who sin will die. The NT says, in many spots, that the unsaved will perish. The NT also says that Christ brought immortality to light. Is this a different immortality than what all souls seem to possess (according to eternal conscious punishment types)? In effect, aren't these individuals preaching immortality for ALL men - with the only difference being WHERE you will "live" forever. Now I think it would be difficult indeed for a non-pret traditionalist to see this point - but a preterist easily recognizes that many, if not all, of what Jesus taught about the end was a reference to the covenant AD 70, and NOT the afterlife. Scriptural language has Sodom and Gemorrah and other cities burning up forever - and don't we all know this simply means utterly destroyed in scriptural language? In essence, it would appear that ALL have eternal life - some just have it in a different place? All have immortality, some just have it in a different place? So to paraphrase this, For the wages of sin is death (actually eternal life in the Lake of Fire); but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. So the opposite of eternal life in Christ is eternal life outside of Christ. Isn't life, life?Solomon wrote the spirit returns back to God from which it came. We know the life of man is the breath of God, and without it there is no life. The life is in the Father and in the Son. If we are not in the Father and the Son we are dead - we have NO LIFE (unless the definition of life changed somewhere). I could be wrong on this, and I am not a Universalist, but immortality of the wicked is something I have difficulty comprehending from the scriptures. As far as the Lazaras story - it is scripturally PROVEN this is a parable and not a reference to an actual place. But that is another study for another day. Blessings to Melanson and his work.


Date:
22 Jul 2002
Time:
18:35:34

Comments

Though I appreciate your comments and understand your position, I strongly disagree and believe some verses are taken out of context to support a view that is simply in error. Matthew 7:13 suggests nothing of "eternal destiny" but rather of one way that is life and another that is suffers loss (e.g., destruction; see Corth I Corth 3:15...same word used). Again, Lazarus and the rich man is a parable by Jesus concerning Israel and Gentiles. Jesus speaks of 5 stories in one parable (Luke 15:3 "this parable"). If it were a literal story, it presents several questions that violate other holy script aswell as common sense and reasoning. The scriptures also speak of a "certain man" in other places which clearly are parables. thanks for reading my comments tim tdc042@aol.com Valrico, FL


Date:
23 Sep 2002
Time:
00:37:46
Remote User:

Comments

Though I do not support the "heaven here" idea, I would like to point out that the eternal state IS alterable by ONE: Matthew 10:28 "And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell." Personally, I believe that destruction IS being cast out of God's presence and that in this case, is representative of the lake of fire. Also, relavent to "going" to heaven, in translation heaven=God literally, does it not? I do not believe the "heaven now" thing because they base their beliefs on old definitions. What I mean by this is that they are using quotes from the ot when shoel/paradise/hell was still around. This was cast into the lake of fire later and destroyed. They also refer to the book of Acts ("David has not yet ascended") when this statement is clearly prophetic past perfect meaning that David made the statement that God would not leave his soul in hell BEFORE he was out of hell; before even that he died bodily. Hell in David's time being called shoel. I don't believe either that the verses referring to Abraham and the beggar are relavent. They were all in shoel. Abraham being the symbolic and literal representative of faith and the faithful would be comforted by that faith., and so would those within his bosom. Those on the other side of the gulf, are the faith-less. I think that the bible is clear in saying that when we are baptized, we are risen, we are quickened with/by the Spirit, we are given life, we will not taste of death, we are no longer the walking dead, but alive. I don't understand how this is questionable, but accept that some do. Right now, we are in our temple, when the temple stones are cast down and become dust, we go to our God, whereas before Jesus came, we were divided from him, thus in hell. Where is God? God being everywhere is a childlike allusion to me. The kingdom of God is everywhere in that we are his kingdom and all around each other now. (When Jesus said to pray thy kingdom come, can't it be taken two ways and the prayer be timeless therefore?) God is upon the throne which is heaven (isaiah 66:1) and we are on the earth (eccl. 5:2). Over and over God looks down from heaven, the manna rained down from heaven, Jesus ascended to heaven, etc etc etc. It would seem to me, that heaven is above the earth. Literally? hmmmm.


Date:
12 Dec 2002
Time:
12:15:51

Comments

First of all, anyone who quotes MacArthur most be joking. Secondly Melanson talks as if he as never heard any arguments against "everlasting punishment". Melanson needs to wake and smell the coffee and realize there are many bible versions that do not contain the phrase "everlasting punishment". Anyone who would even use the world "everlasting" shows they know nothing of the greek. Mr. Melanson needs to put down his John MacArthur commentaries, go to Starbucks, find a cozy little corner and read some J.W. Hanson, Thomas Thayer, or Louis Abbott writings on the subject. He may even learn some greek and hebrew in the process.


Date:
10 Apr 2003
Time:
12:58:18

Comments

What you are implying has no scriptural backing nor merit. Anyone can pull a few verses out of context and start a new doctrine. This seems to be what most people are doing these days instead of hearing what the Spirit is saying unto the church.


Date:
27 Sep 2003
Time:
07:52:35

Comments

i am not going to say alot. i am not a bible scholar.i am a christian though. it is very clear to see where evil is. politics and corporate america. the war is a lie. oh what war? such ashame to say more than one going on. these liars are being brought down one by one. my God is a just God. separation of church and state. GOD BLESS JEFF


Date:
23 Dec 2003
Time:
05:58:31

Comments

I have to agree with the what was written here regarding Heaven and Hell. Jesus is coming back friends. There is a Heaven to gain and a Hell to stay away from.but,you have to make a choice.Do you listen to the naysayers,those who say no to God and His offer of love or do you say Yes to Him? It's the most important decision of your life.If you really knew and could comprehend how much God loves you ,you would never be the same.try it,ask Him to reveal Himself to you .Guys[and gals,] He will .He is the greatest .


Date:
28 Aug 2004
Time:
08:51:05

Comments

I think that if we search the scriptures for other words intended meaning, how they WERE used and how they changed over the years and interpret them correctly, in God's Character as you do for Preterism, then you will find that Universal Salvation is God's Plan for ALL man. Words like Sheol, hades, pit, grave, All, Fear, Age, Age-during, Aion, Aionios, torment, punishment, fire, restoration, "God's desires" and the like should all be exstensively and prayerfully studied. These topics show God's nature and character and the difference between His and ours. It become quite evident that just like the study of Preterism shows that Christ's work is finished Spiritually; Universalism shows how much Jesus' blood was actually worth in order to achieve that. It is truely "good news". St. Basil the Great (c. 329-379) in his De Asceticis wrote: "The mass of men (Christians) say that there is to be an end of punishment to those who are punished." I point out that he is not classified as a Universalist. Out of his own mouth, the hero of the eternal tormentors of Christendom, states that in his day the majority of Christians did not believe in endless torment and they did not deny the Holy Scriptures by believing it. The very champion of the doctrine of "Eternal Torment" himself--Saint Augustine -- The one who brought his "doctrines of devils" over from his previous "fire worshiping" religion, The Manichaean religion, states... "There are very many (imo quam plurimi, can be translated majority) who though not denying the Holy Scriptures, do not believe in endless torments" (Enchiria, ad Laurent. c.29). What is important to note is so much who said it and when (even though it is important) but what is of greater importance is that the MAJORITY who believed did NOT DENY THE HOLY SCRIPTURES! So, the modern day "worry" over such a doctrine has already been shown to be void because of this very fact! There have been people who believed in an eventual restitution of all things back to God, and they were still able to be in love with Christ. Still human and fallible but still Christian's. I am sure that over the years hell and the promise of it has kept masses of people in control but spiritualy, probably dead and not obeying out of Love and a relationship with Christ but rather out of "fear". You can not deny God, not now and not ever. Every Knee shall bow for a reason. The truth is the truth and just because someone doesn't "know" the truth at "your" desired time, doesn't mean that in God's time, that person will not know. Knowing is more than someone speaking something into someone's ear and having them hear it. It is also a Spiritual experience that only God can teach. With God ALL things are possible! God works ALL things out for good! Peace, --Jan
 

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