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BOOKS:  BIBLICAL STUDIES (1500BC-AD70) / EARLY CHRISTIAN PRETERISM (AD50-1000) / FREE ONLINE BOOKS (AD1000-2008)


Not One Stone Left Upon Another : The catastrophic fall of Jerusalem in A.D. 70 forever changed the face of Judaism—and the fate of Christians

"Jesus predicted it 37 years before it happened. Herod Agrippa II and his sister Bernice, who heard Paul's testimony at Caesarea (Acts 26), tried hard to prevent it, as did the Jewish historian Flavius Josephus (our main source of first-century information). But the fall of Jerusalem and the burning of the Temple in A.D. 70 happened nevertheless, and it was a catastrophe with almost unparalleled consequences for Jews, Christians, and, indeed, all of subsequent history."


Church History's "Preterist Assumption"
FINDING & DEFINING "PRETERIST IDEALISM"


Pret Scholars | Normative Pret | Hyper Pret | Progressive Pret | Reformed Pret | Pret Universalism | Pret Idealism

Hyper Preterism: Defining "Hyper Preterism"- Criticisms from the Inside - Criticisms from the Outside || Progressive Pret | Regressive Pret | Former Full Preterists | Pret Scholars | Normative Pret | Reformed Pret | Pret Idealism | Pret Universalism

JEWISH/CHRISTIAN BIBLICAL STUDIES (1500BC-AD70) | EARLY CHRISTIAN PRETERISM (AD70-1000) | FREE ONLINE BOOKS  (AD1000-2008)


PRETERIST-IDEALISM (PI, aka Modern Idealism) -  A) Umbrella term covering those who see the true focus of Bible prophecy as the work of Jesus Christ throughout all ages.  Historical fulfillments in the history of natural Israel - notably in the events of Moses' and Jesus' generations - are seen as the outward "typological" show of the everlasting work of Christ.  B) Though Idealism has been taught by spiritually minded writers throughout the Christian era (such as the Allegorists, Quakers, Swedeborgians, Medieval Monks, and countless others), very seldom have forms utilizing a "Preterist modifier" been published.   Saint Augustine is considered the father of Idealism, though systems anchored historically by the Preterist view are only now being developed among Modern Preterists.  Those forms of Idealism without the "Preterist modifier" often qualify as Historicism or Futurism  C) The spectrum of known systems range from those more heavily Idealist (looking to Christ for the substance of prophecy) to those more heavily Preterist (looking to history for the substance of prophecy).   (Fundamentally neither preterist nor futurist ; PreteristArchive.com's native approach ;  More Information Here)

"This view dominated the history of interpretation from Augustine through the Reformation."
Jonathan Edwards's interpretation of Revelation 4:1-8:1 By Glenn R. Kreider


PRETERIST-IDEALISM

Jesus as Focal Point of all Bible Prophecy

2 Cor. 1:20 "For all the promises of God, whatever their number, have their confirmation in Him; and for this reason through Him also our "Amen" acknowledges their truth and promotes the glory of God through our faith." Weymouth New Testament

"'Tis ordinarily said, that the Jews were a typical people, the whole divine economy toward them is doctrinal and instructive to us, not immediately or literally, but by way of Anagogy" - Henry Hammond


ISRAEL'S HISTORICAL THINGS SEEN (Preterist) ARE OUTWARD SHOWS OF JESUS CHRIST ETERNAL (Idealism)
THE HISTORICAL
IS SCHOOLMASTER OF
THE ETERNAL (Not "Re-Fulfillment")

Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new. 2 Corinthians 5:17


 


LATEST ADDITIONS :


 

 


Jerusalem as the Heart

Hebrews 12:25-29 And Our New Creation in Christ
(Historically called the "Tropological Sense" of Scripture)

 

Jerusalem as the Heart

OLD/NEW JERUSALEM - THE OLD/NEW HEART (OLD IN BONDAGE ; NEW IN LIBERTY)
 
"And in that day living waters will flow out of Jerusalem"
Zechariah 14:8
"He who believes in Me, as the Scripture said, 'From his innermost being will flow rivers of living water.'"
Jesus in John 7:38

In chapter four of the letter to the Galatians, Paul equates both views of Jerusalem with heart conditions: liberty vs. bondage of the soul.  By doing so, he has beautifully illuminated the distinctions between the inward states of those with and without Jesus Christ.   This messianic meaning, he declares, was the intended context of that historical "allegory."  And lest we try to externalize Paul's intent in Galatians 4, seeking to remove its meaning from our inward transition from darkness to light, earlier in the chapter he gives a clear indication of context:   And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.  With such overt references, its a wonder that anyone could fail to see how the Spirit is likewise fully speaking to us today in the Word through the historical "allegory" of the fall of the old Jerusalem!  Surely, preconceived notions afflict preterists just like they do futurists.

 


 

How doth the city sit solitary, that was full of people!

How is she become as a widow!
 She that was great among the nations,
and princess among the provinces,
How is she become tributary!
She weepeth sore in the night,
and her tears are on her cheeks:

among all her lovers she hath none to comfort her.

Lamentations 1:1

"Praise the Lord, O Jerusalem: praise thy God, O Sion"

"O priests, comfort ye, comfort ye my people. Speak to the heart of Jerusalem, and say that she has received of the Lord's hand double for her sins" (Isa. xl. 1,2, LXX.)

"At that time they shall call Jerusalem the throne of the LORD; and all the nations shall be gathered unto it, to the name of the LORD, to Jerusalem: neither shall they walk any more after the imagination of their evil heart."

"O Jerusalem, wash thine heart from wickedness, that thou mayest be saved. How long shall thy vain thoughts lodge within thee?"

John Cassian (420) "The tropological sense is the moral explanation which has to do with improvement of life and practical teaching, as if we were to understand by these two covenants practical and theoretical instruction, or at any rate as if we were to want to take Jerusalem or Sion as the soul of man, according to this: "Praise the Lord, O Jerusalem: praise thy God, O Sion." (Conferences)

Frederic W. Farrar: Christ Wails Over Jerusalem (1899) "This incident is an allegory. The soul of each one amongst us is such a Jerusalem. The soul has its history of shame or of faithfulness, and its prophecy of triumph or of doom, just as Jerusalem had. Jerusalem had warnings..  Jerusalem found that it was so, and so shall all men who persist in defying the mercy of God which calleth us to repentance."

Peter J. Leithart  ""[T]ropologically, the history of Jerusalem can be understood as a model for the history of the soul (secundum tropologiam).  Just as David conquered Jerusalem and set up the Lord's throne there, so Jesus, His Son, conquers the inner city of the sinner and consecrates him as a saint, a holy one." (Ascent to Love, pp. 22)

Isaac Pennington (1658) "Now for the sakes of such as have been truly exercised in their spirits by the Spirit of the Lord, (and have felt the powerful work of his grace, and a building raised up by him) and may yet be further exercised, I shall add this. Jerusalem was a type of an inward building in the spirits of God's people"

Joseph Wood (1906) "Inspiration is that which is of universal application. If any utterance is only for an age, and local in its interpretation, we do not regard it as inspired. The Psalms, for instance, were mostly suggested by local considerations, the trials, the joys, the experiences of David and others, under peculiar circumstances. But, nevertheless, we feel as we read them that they pass beyond the limits of the local and the individual— they belong to humanity—they are true of human nature and life everywhere. Or take Christ's prophecy of the destruction of Jerusalem. It was spoken at Jerusalem about Jerusalem, and in a manner which seemed limited to Jerusalem. But had the prophecy been true only of that city of sorrows, it would never have been regarded as inspired. Whereas Christ's principle was this : that the doom pronounced on Jerusalem was universally applicable, and that it was but a style and specimen of God's judgment everywhere. The judgment comes wherever there is evil grown ripe for judgment, wherever corruption is complete. And the gathering of the Roman eagles to the carcase is but a specimen of the way in which judgment at last overtakes any city, any country, and any man in whom evil has reached the point where there is no possibility of cure. We who have lived through the last fifty years have seen the eagles gathered together in Naples, in America, in France, in Bulgaria. The Lord's judgment on Jerusalem has been fulfilled many times—it was not simply of local but of universal application." (The Bible, what it is and is not [lects.], p. 97)

Writers on the "Tropological Sense" of Jerusalem




Total fulfillment of all of Israel's shadows, which are but applications of eternal realities in Christ

Marcus Booker

  • "I agree that the law and prophets spoke of Jesus. It is the way in which they spoke of Jesus which is in question (not whether or not they did speak of him). Jesus was seen in types and shadows. I've elsewhere written about how Jesus stood as the substance behind the law (as say Hebrews and Colossians). A shadow cannot exist apart from a body and a light. God's light upon Jesus cast a shadow upon the earth. That shadow was the law.  We, for our parts, seek and serve the body and not the shadow. God first revealed the shadow and then the body. Even so, the body is preeminent; it supersedes the shadow. It is the true object to which devotion is due." (22/5/2003 PP Forums)

 

Todd Dennis

  • Matthew 26:64 is NOT a "Preterist Time Indicator" Pointing to AD70 "In short, the usage of "Apo Arti" in Matthew 26:64 [Apo ("from" - Strongs 575) and Arti ("now on" - Strong's 737)] is highly suggestive of the themes that have been previously offered at this blog ; that is, a series of revelatory recognitions of the power and glory of Jesus Christ's dominance by friend and foe alike. Though the typically pret-friendly Weymouth translation would like to make Jesus say "later on, you will see.." this is not really honest. I would rather say that it was simply a mistake, but I find it impossible to believe that neither Richard Francis Weymouth ("If this belief ever obtains general acceptance the earlier date of the Apocalypse will also be regarded as fully established. For it will then be seen that the book describes beforehand events which took place in 70 A.D.") nor Earnest Hampden-Cook (co-editor and author of "The Christ Has Come") were aware of the importance of this passage regarding their Preterist assumptions. However, not only is there no sense of futurity in this very emphatic Greek phrase, but rather we see quite the opposite."

  • Matthew 10:23 is NOT a "Preterist Time Indicator" pointing to AD70 (2008) "It has become a working assumption of Hyper Preterism that the "coming" passages in the New Testament refer to AD70. And the eisegetical presupposition that Matthew 10:23 is a "(Hyper) Preterist time indicator" is considered to be unassailable, even though there is not a hint of reference to AD70 in the text or context of the chapter from which to support this conclusion."

  • Matthew 16:27-28 is Not About AD70 (2008) "Why would we expect the Lord to perform his acts of power and glory just once — be it in the past or the future? What good does that do all the other generations?  It seems to me that all prophecy ultimately finds its accomplishment in Christ internally and personally, as opposed to externally and historically. Even the cross must be received, and each follower must bear it as Jesus said."

  • On Leaving Full Preterism After a Decade (2006)

  • An Interview with Virgil Vaduva on Preterist Terminology and Hybrids (2006)

  • Hebrews 12:25-29: Jerusalem as the Heart (2006) "Looking closer at the "promised land," we can see how the spiritual intent was revealed through fulfilled prophecy in Israel's day.  Though there was an appearance in the promises to Abraham of an ultimate fulfillment in reference to the everlasting possession of a particular tract of land in history, we know from New Testament revelation that the intent was regarding spiritual things in Christ.  Though the promise found natural fulfillment in "Preterist Israel", it was given to signify the true, greater fulfillment in "Ideal Israel" -- with actual participants from all nations, throughout all generations (including ours).


Nathan DuBois

  • Scripture Interprets Scripture: Part One - The Covenants, The Jerusalems, The Flesh and The Spirit "Since most preterists agree that the kingdom is within and written on the heart and that the Spirit brought us to life and into an eternal covenant (the new covenant on the heart), then isn't the description of the Jerusalem from above warranted and accurate as a portrayal of our heart in Christ vs. the Jerusalem from below as our heart under the law?"

  • The Nature of the Christ: The Dilemma of Chronology "Jesus was Messiah from the foundation, He did not become the Messiah only after He did the work. He did the work to reveal Himself as Messiah.. Are we really putting the "Type" as being the purpose and fulfillment over the "anti-type" to which they pointed?

  • Why I Needed to Repent: A Letter to a Friend... Among Friends (2006) "Am I saying full preterists are the Pharisees of today? NO! But I am saying I AM ONE! I was so caught up in the system of things that I could SEE that I was missing, and causing others to miss, the things that can only be seen by the heart. I saw the purpose and will of God in AD 70, the "new" (though very old) law of God being advented, but I missed the heart behind it. I have been guilty of Phariseeism."

  • God, The Judge of the Heart (2006) "The gospel is living, it is active. Today men are judged righteous or unrighteous by being "in Christ" or not.  Judgment accompanied the kingdom because it was at the "revelation of Christ" in AD 70, to the world, that men were judged by the gospel vs. the law. "

  • My Thoughts and Understanding of Preterist Idealism (2006) "Any theology which looks to the temporal things as its finality, any theology which takes ANY scripture and applies them to the temporal realm, and does not apply them to the spiritual truth behind it for which it was written, is an incorrect theology."

  • Blog: Nate4OneNation - "Where do we put the value of the truth. In the event? Or the pre-existing fact, kept in secret, from the very beginning. Is it us in AD 2006 seeing the cross made of wood, and the temple made of stone that crumbled, that can boast, because of those events (AD 30-70), that our salvation is true? Or was it true, because God declared it before the foundation of the world ever existed."

Frederic W. Farrar

  • Christ Wails Over Jerusalem (1899) "This incident is an allegory. The soul of each one amongst us is such a Jerusalem. The soul has its history of shame or of faithfulness, and its prophecy of triumph or of doom, just as Jerusalem had. Jerusalem had warnings..  Jerusalem found that it was so, and so shall all men who persist in defying the mercy of God which calleth us to repentance."

John Noē - Preterist-Idealist

  • He Never Left "..if you insist on limiting the comings of Jesus to only two times, then this second time occurred, chronologically, when Jesus came and appeared to Saul on the road to Damascus (Acts 9:4-5) or to John on the isle of Patmos (Rev. 1). How do you count or discount those comings of Jesus?—and there are more."  My working definition for “a coming of Jesus” is this: it’s a personal and bodily intervention and/or manifestation of Jesus into the life of an individual, a group, or a nation on this earth. As we shall see, there are many different types of comings for different purposes, and they occur at different times and places.  Some are visible appearances; some are invisible interventions."

  • An Exegetical Basis for a Preterist-Idealist Understanding of the Book of Revelation (2007) “The revelation of Jesus Christ” (Rev 1:1) has a fuller significance and deeper character beyond its AD 70 eschatological fulfillment.  Consequently, the preterist notion that it only applies to AD 70 when Christ supposedly came in “finality” is a weakness to be amended.  And in a preterist-idealist synthesis, the strength of idealism remains that it “secures its relevance for all periods of the church’s history.”  But its major weakness—i.e. “its refusal to see a firm historical anchorage”— is removed.  That missing anchorage is supplied by Revelation’s A.D-70 fulfillment." 

Dr. Israel P. Warren

  • The Parousia, A Critical Study of the Scripture Doctrines of Christ's Second Coming, His Reign as King ; The Resurrection of the Dead ; and the General Judgment (1879) "Of the doctrine thus presented, I desire to remark in review: 1. That it is to be regarded neither as a praeterist nor a futurist view ; rather does it include both.   If it be affirmed that the Parousia began at the ascension, it is not meant that it is not also a fact of all time coming ages.   I ask especially that I may not be represented as saying that the resurrection is "past already," or that the day of judgment occurred at the destruction of Jerusalem.  The Parousia, including under it Christ's reign as King, Life-giver, and Judge, is not an event, but a dispensation.. The past, present, and future meet in one grand whole."

Rev.  Josiah Litch (Millerite)

  • Christ Yet to Come: A Review of I.P. Warren's Parousia (1880) "He speaks of the fact that the Parousia was 'near'.' If, as the Doctor so strenuously contends, parousia signifies "presence," not "coming" what does he mean by "was near" ? Was there an interval of some forty years after Christ left his disciples on the mountain in Galilee, saying, "Lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world," to the time of Jerusalem's overthrow, when Christ's presence was not with them ? I press this point and urge an answer. Was there forty years, more or less, when they had to work without his omnipresence ? If there was not, and the time of his presence was still future when Paul wrote, where had been his omnipresence ? Either Dr. Warren or his reviewer is confused in his mode of apprehending and expressing this great theme. Does not the word near imply not yet here but coming : and if parousia is near, is it not coming ? How is this ?"

G.K. Beale

  •  "He’s an idealist and he’s an evangelical. Almost all idealists used to be liberal, but now you want to be a scholar and all this kind of stuff." (Tommy Ice)  | "Idealist G. K. Beale characterizes Revelation as “a symbolic portrayal of the conflict between good and evil, between the forces of God and of Satan. . . . a timeless depiction of this struggle.”  (John Noe)  
     

Willibald Beyschlag

  • New Testament Theology (1895) "The common error.. of conceiving the parousia as a single historical event instead of the whole course of Christ's victory and triumph over the historical world, dominates also the writer of the Apocalypse. But this error marks simply the necessary limits of prophecy, which Paul describes in the words (1 Cor. xiii. 12): "Now we see (in our prophecy) through a glass in a riddle, but then face to face." To see the things of the future face to face is granted only to the after life ; to him who looks forward the future appears only in the mirror of the present ; the symbol of the future hovers before him in the signs of his time. Hence the conflict of Christian history and the hope of eternal victory were to the writer of the Apocalypse symbolically reflected in the confusions of his time ; and if he saw close at hand the eternal triumph of the kingdom of God, he simply erred in the same way as Isaiah or his greater post-Exilic successor, the former of whom expected that the Assyrian oppression and deliverance from it, and the latter that the Babylonian captivity and deliverance, alone separated them from the Messianic salvation."


William Neil  (1950) God's timeless judgment which is past, present, and future - "[The Day of the Lord] is God's timeless Judgment which IS past, present, and future. In a sense it is always to come, in a sense it is always present, and in a sense it has already been passed . . . Thus the Parousia [a technical word for the second coming] is, like Creation, in a real sense timeless;  not an historical event, but the underlying purpose of history and the summing up of all things in Christ." (Thessalonians, pp. xli–xlii)

Joseph Wood (1906) "Inspiration is that which is of universal application. If any utterance is only for an age, and local in its interpretation, we do not regard it as inspired. The Psalms, for instance, were mostly suggested by local considerations, the trials, the joys, the experiences of David and others, under peculiar circumstances. But, nevertheless, we feel as we read them that they pass beyond the limits of the local and the individual— they belong to humanity—they are true of human nature and life everywhere. Or take Christ's prophecy of the destruction of Jerusalem. It was spoken at Jerusalem about Jerusalem, and in a manner which seemed limited to Jerusalem. But had the prophecy been true only of that city of sorrows, it would never have been regarded as inspired. Whereas Christ's principle was this : that the doom pronounced on Jerusalem was universally applicable, and that it was but a style and specimen of God's judgment everywhere. The judgment comes wherever there is evil grown ripe for judgment, wherever corruption is complete. And the gathering of the Roman eagles to the carcase is but a specimen of the way in which judgment at last overtakes any city, any country, and any man in whom evil has reached the point where there is no possibility of cure. We who have lived through the last fifty years have seen the eagles gathered together in Naples, in America, in France, in Bulgaria. The Lord's judgment on Jerusalem has been fulfilled many times—it was not simply of local but of universal application." (The Bible, what it is and is not [lects.], p. 97)

 

Revelation in Natural Israel's History
Seen in the Land Promises

Natural Israel's History as a Parable from Beginning to Very End : The natural fulfillment of the prophecies of the land of promise (Josh. 21:43-45 "all came to pass") is not the climax (Heb. 11:13 "these died not having received the promises"), but just the outward show of the true substance to which it pointed (Heb. 11:16 "they aspire to a better land -- a heavenly one..  He hath prepared a city for them."), which can be received in Jesus Christ alone (II Cor. 1:20  "For all the promises of God, whatever their number, have their confirmation in Him")

Gen 18:18 Seeing that Abraham shall surely become a great and mighty nation, and all the nations of the earth shall be blessed in him

That is not to say, again, that the land promises weren't totally fulfilled in typological fulfillment of the promise to Israel (Joshua 11.23; Joshua 21.43,45; Joshua 23.14; 1 Kings 4.21; 1 Kings 8.56)... just that this possession of the natural land only looked to something eternal in nature, AND ONLY RECEIVABLE IN JESUS CHRIST, NOT IN HISTORY.

Heb 11:9,16 9 By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise: For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.. But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly.

This same principle is true of all visible, historical signs.. such as circumcision (which was a physical sign of spiritual things, Ro 4:11), the resurrection of Christ (which was a physical sign of spiritual things, Mt 12:39) and the fall of Jerusalem (which was also a physical sign of spiritual things, Mt 24:30)."

"We should not, however, bypass the shadows and only focus on the ultimate fulfillments, as though the accomplishment of the outward show is irrelevant.   Likewise, we should not consider the accomplishment of the natural to be the substance of what is being revealed, as though the giving of the sign is the substance of the sign... after all, symbols do not symbolize themselves." 

 

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