Lack of Christological Focus Hurts Christianity Focusing on Shadows Instead on Substance Hyper Preterism: Defining "Hyper Preterism"- Criticisms from the Inside - Criticisms from the Outside || Progressive Pret | Regressive Pret | Former Full Preterists | Pret Scholars | Normative Pret | Reformed Pret | Pret Idealism | Pret Universalism

At what point does AD70 hinder the message/messenger?

Hyper Preterist Views, Defined by other Hyper Preterists:  Universalism (Don Preston, Preterist Alliance); Pantelism (Preterist Alliance); Comprehensive Annihilationism  (Preterist Alliance); Max King's Doctrine (Simmons); Covenant Creation (Frost, SGP); Consistent Cessationism (Frost, Fenley, Preston, Stevens); Jesus sent only to Israel (Fenley, Preterist Alliance); Literal Rapture View (Sullivan)

 

---

David Curtis / Kurt Simmons Debate on Author of "Gospel of John"

•  Hyper: David Curtis: The Disciple Whom Jesus Loved: Who Wrote the Fourth Gospel? (2007) "At the end of the Fourth Gospel Jesus is talking to Peter and tells him what kind of death he would experience. In response to this:  Peter, turning around, saw the disciple whom Jesus loved following them; the one who also had leaned back on His breast at the supper, and said, "Lord, who is the one who betrays You?" 21 Peter therefore seeing him said to Jesus, "Lord, and what about this man?"    (John 21:20-21 NASB).  Jesus tells Peter how he is going to die and Peter’s response is, “What about Lazarus”? As soon as the topic became death, who did Peter’s mind turn to? Lazarus!  Jesus said to him, "If I want him to remain until I come, what is that to you? You follow Me!"    (John 21:22 NASB) This is a preteristic verse. Jesus is saying, If I want Lazarus to live until I come what is that to you. Would Jesus say this if His coming was thousands of years away?

•  Hyper: Kurt Simmons: Who Wrote the Fourth Gospel? "In these twelve short pages we have marshaled by a small portion of the evidence demonstrating that John, the son of Zebedee was the author of the fourth gospel.  Novel ideas placing authorship in Lazarus are without merit and should be rejected."

---

Don Preston / Kurt Simmons Debate on "The Cross vs. AD70"
Kurt Simmons: Covenant Eschatology is "a dangerous system of theology"

"This is the long and short of Don’s teaching: nothing happened at the cross."
"The cross has vanished from Don’s soteriology. "

Kurt Simmons “I repudiate all things Max King!  It is because I have learned better that we are having this discussion at all. Here are the issues of this debate: "

• To what event does scripture attach man’s salvation, the death of Christ upon the cross, or his coming in wrath upon the Jews and Romans?   (Simmons: Cross ; Preston: AD70)

• Was the law fulfilled and the legal efficacy of the Old Testament end at the cross, or did it remain valid and binding until the second coming?     (Simmons: Cross ; Preston: AD70)

• Was remission of sins and fulness of grace available from and after the cross, at Pentecost when the gospel was first preached were sins remitted and washed away, or was salvation from sin postponed until Jerusalem fell?     (Simmons: Cross ; Preston: AD70)

Kurt Simmons: Why I have Decided to Discontinue All Association with Planet Preterist (2007)  "When I first became active in the area of eschatology, I was asked to participate as a columnist at Planet Preterist. I accepted and, for a time, enjoyed the ability to post articles there at will. However, I have since come to feel that Planet Preterist is an irresponsible forum that is used to promote unbiblical doctrines, including post-Modernism, Emergent church theology, and Universalism, to name but a few. Despite its ostensible purpose to promote Preterist interpretation of scripture, it has probably done more to injure Preterism than help it by allowing Preterism to become associated with so many unbiblical, irresponsible, and just plain "flakey" doctrines. I do not feel in good conscience that I can have my name associated with Planet Preterist as a columnist. I do not agree with what is taught or promoted there, and do not want to appear to condone it by lending it my name. This has been a difficult decision for me, but I feel it is the right one, particularly in light of the present crisis regarding Universalism. Therefore, please remove my name from the list of columnists."    http://planetpreterist.com/modules.php?name=Search&query=&topic=13

---

 

"Preterist Alliance" Defines Universalism and Comprehensive Annihilationism As "Hyper Preterism"

• 1/31/10: New Definition of Hyper Preterism, from HyP website "Preterist Alliance"  : Hyper Preterism (AKA – Pantelism, Preterist Universalism, Preterist Universal Annihilationism) – The view that all things were accomplished in relation to 70AD where all or most statements of “salvation” or “eternity” relate to the quality of life for the believer, or escape from the physical/temporal judgment of 70AD.  Some of the variants of this view claim that after 70AD either all people are free from sin, including evildoers, thus sending everyone to heaven, or that there is no afterlife spoken of in the Bible, thereby causing all Biblical references to “eternity” or “salvation” to be nothing more than temporal references to life while on this planet, and future generations of living people and their quality of life.  In this view, either all people go to heaven or all people go to a non-existent state at death." http://preteristalliance.org/preterism/hyper-preterism/

 

Sam Frost vs. Full Preterist "Covenant Creation" View

• Sam Frost (2009) BCS has become the all controlling lense through which everything is seen - and I mean everything. What is sacrificed to keep this dismal conjecture alive is the infallibility and inerrancy of Scripture, the lesser superiority of God's word over epistemological empiricism, and the Truth of Science above all. Sorry, but I see this aberrant view as having far more dangerous concepts than I care to allow for -and as an Ecumenicist, I allow for a lot! Ideas have consequences, and the warning has been sounded to abandon this radical approach to the Bible which distorts even the very rule of interpreting the Bible.

• Sam Frost (2009) "I believe that in this latest exchange, the clear, clear lines have been drawn between what I know consider as simply a new reinvention of Christianity that seeks to operate completely and entirely outside the scope and circle of anything that could be considered historic Christianity."   http://preterismdebate.ning.com/profiles/blog/show?id=4171784%3ABlogPost%3A5076&page=3#c_45c

• Sam Frost (2009) “Um especially - and I don’t mean to bring this up and I don’t want to discuss it but the Beyond Creation Science stuff - um definitely goes further than - see I would call - in fact I have an article where I do refer to that and then the universalizing tendency, I refer to that as hyper - I call that hyperpreterism. I think a couple of years ago I started saying this stuff is going so far out into - I don’t know where anymore” (August 2009 podcast)

Response by Norm Voss: “I also understand Sam’s desire to want to render the message physically because it is the same thing that all religious leaders gravitate to because it makes developing a following much easier. People are drawn to the simplistic and what’s physically in it for me as a tried and true church builder.”

"Well, here is a similar example. Only this time it is a full-preterist teaching on Hebrews 1. I think you can see how his teaching, if taken to its logical conclusion, leads straight to Covenant Creation. Of course, Rev. Curtis denied any such thing... No further explanation offered...The blinding dogmatism traditionalism creates in people, even full preterist traditionalists like the Rev. David Curtis (at least when the subject of Genesis creation comes up), never ceases to amaze me!" Tim Martin

Conservatives vs. Liberals

Kurt Simmons: Why I have Decided to Discontinue All Association with Planet Preterist (2007)  "When I first became active in the area of eschatology, I was asked to participate as a columnist at Planet Preterist. I accepted and, for a time, enjoyed the ability to post articles there at will. However, I have since come to feel that Planet Preterist is an irresponsible forum that is used to promote unbiblical doctrines, including post-Modernism, Emergent church theology, and Universalism, to name but a few. Despite its ostensible purpose to promote Preterist interpretation of scripture, it has probably done more to injure Preterism than help it by allowing Preterism to become associated with so many unbiblical, irresponsible, and just plain "flakey" doctrines. I do not feel in good conscience that I can have my name associated with Planet Preterist as a columnist. I do not agree with what is taught or promoted there, and do not want to appear to condone it by lending it my name. This has been a difficult decision for me, but I feel it is the right one, particularly in light of the present crisis regarding Universalism. Therefore, please remove my name from the list of columnists."    http://planetpreterist.com/modules.php?name=Search&query=&topic=13

"The Addition of A New Author - Sam Frost"
 By Mike Sullivan, Showing Divisions of Full Preterism

"Sam will be the author of the concluding chapter, which will sum up and define the book.  We're definitely thrilled to have Sam co-writing with us.  With his theological sharpness and writing talent, the book will be greatly improved.  Thank you for joining us Sam!       :)

Because of Sam's entanglement with Planet Preterist, his partnership with us might not have been possible a year ago.  Nine months ago however, Sam announced on one of his podcasts that a "break" was coming between him and Planet Preterist.  This break was impending, Sam said, because of all the disturbing doctrines that are promoted at Planet Preterist.  Specifically:  Emergent errors, "we can't know absolute truth," "God does not know all things at all times," no creeds, no systematic theology, Universalism, attacks on the doctrine of scriptural inerrancy, free will, etc., etc.

Over the months since Sam made his announcement, there has indeed come to be a natural break between Sam and Vaduva's website.  While Sam is still a personal friend to Vaduva and while he still teaches Calvinism once a year at Vaduva's "Truth Void" conferences, Sam no longer has any kind of ministerial relationship with Vaduva.  That tie has been severed.  Amen.

Sam once called the Pope "a dear brother in Christ."  Sam no longer holds to that view.  Sam doesn't assume that the Pope is damned, but he doesn't assume that the Pope is saved either --simply because the Pope is the head of an organization that teaches salvation by works.

Some of the criticism that we've heard about Sam is exaggeration and distortion.  Some of it was true, but is no longer true.  Despite what you might hear from certain maniacal preterist-bashers, Sam Frost is not a hyper-ecumenicist who is "in bed" with Emergent postmodernists, Universalists, Unitarians, Open Theists, theological anarchists or any other heretics. 

Sam was going to co-author a Mathison response with men from the Campbellite sect (the Church of Christ), but he decided against that project because he was uncomfortable co-writing a theological book with consistent Arminians.  So ....Sam decided to come home to us Calvinists.  We're glad he did.  We're thankful for the opportunity to be Sam's co-authors." (http://treeoflifeministries.info/)

 

Cosmological vs. Covenantal Creation

Young Earth Preterism (Cosmological Preterism) Kurt Simmons: Simmons’ Review of Martin’s BCS Roderick Edwards: Beyond Creative Speculation Michael Bennett - Genesis Animals = People?  http://preterism.ning.com/profiles/blogs/bcs-genesis-animals-people Sam Frost vs. "Covenant Creation" View Critique of Beyond Creation Science Sam Frost (2009) "BCS has become the all controlling lense through which everything is seen - and I mean everything. What is sacrificed to keep this dismal conjecture alive is the infallibility and inerrancy of Scripture, the lesser superiority of God's word over epistemological empiricism, and the Truth of Science above all. Sorry, but I see this aberrant view as having far more dangerous concepts than I care to allow for -and as an Ecumenicist, I allow for a lot! Ideas have consequences, and the warning has been sounded to abandon this radical approach to the Bible which distorts even the very rule of interpreting the Bible." "I believe that in this latest exchange, the clear, clear lines have been drawn between what I know consider as simply a new reinvention of Christianity that seeks to operate completely and entirely outside the scope and circle of anything that could be considered historic Christianity."   http://preterismdebate.ning.com/profiles/blog/show?id=4171784%3ABlogPost%3A5076&page=3#c_45c Sam Frost (2009) “Um especially - and I don’t mean to bring this up and I don’t want to discuss it but the Beyond Creation Science stuff - um definitely goes further than - see I would call - in fact I have an article where I do refer to that and then the universalizing tendency, I refer to that as hyper - I call that hyperpreterism. I think a couple of years ago I started saying this stuff is going so far out into - I don’t know where anymore” (August 2009 podcast)	Old Earth Preterism (Covenantal Preterism) Tami Jelinek "Covenant Creation is the only understanding/framework that is capable of offering a consistent preterist view of the Scriptures which ***refutes*** universalism. Mike's and RCM's view of a universal/global new heavens and new earth leads straight there, however. So Todd was right 3 years ago or so when he started pointing this out. As long as you people (Mike B and pals) insist on equating the new heavens and new earth with the new covenant age, and as long as you insist on globalizing it and making it geographical in nature, your brand of preterism *will* logically conclude with universalism." Tim Martin: Response to Sam Frost "That Frost does not agree with our definition of apocalyptic is irrelevant to our case that symbolic images and details are prevalent in early Genesis. Note that Frost said nothing about the parallel structure ordering the days of Genesis 1 in a double pattern. Days 1-3 clearly relate to Days 4-6 (see BCS p. 283). This is a poetic, chiastic structure with conceptual parallelism. Frost agreed with Hebrew authorities that: “The dominant structure in Hebrew poetry is parallelism” (p. 4). Hence, on Frost’s own terms, the claim that Genesis 1 is poetic is legitimate. The literary structure of Genesis 1 indicates something very different than “just the facts, ma’am” kind of writing." http://planetpreterist.com/news-5557.html Norman Voss: Sam Frost's Frustrated Flood Theory "The Covenant Creation understanding will move on into the mainstream leaving you guys in the dustbin of history as just another remnant of curiosity in about 5 or 10 years. Fifty years from now the questions being asked is “what happened to that Sam Frost guy who started out so good?” Will history simply say that he got “left behind”? Mike Beidler: The Creation of an Evolutionist: BCS is Here! "What's unique about this particular book is how it ties the creation debate with the "end times" debate. Although the authors and I don't agree fully on the origins question (both are Old-Earth Creationists, whereas I'm an Evolutionary Creationist), or on the correct interpretation of the early chapters of Genesis, we both agree that OECs (or even ECs/TEs for that matter) who still hold to a futurist eschatology have failed to examine the major (theo)logical disparity between their view of beginnings and their view of the end. It is the addressing of this disparity that proves to be the strength of Beyond Creation Science. If you, as a reader of this blog, have already made that agonizing paradigm shift from YEC to OEC or TE/EC, yet still look to a future "new heavens and new earth," then I highly recommend this book to you, along with Brian Martin's Behind the Veil of Moses, the second edition of which I am currently editing."
Hyper Preterist Discussion on Genesis Creation: Cosmological Creationists Sam Frost & Jason Bradfield Debate Covenantal Creationist Ward Fenle

Limited Atonement vs Preterist-Universalism

 

Kurt Simmons - Four Errors Current Among Preterists (2007)  "The idea that the heavens and earth destroyed at the eschaton were the old law, naturally led to the idea that the new heavens and earth are the New Testament. King taught it; I taught it; many of us taught it. Unfortunately, it just is not true." Kurt Simmons: The Sword and the Plow - August 2007 (PDF File) "This We Believe..."  A Preterist Statement of Faith; and The Great Debate: Does King's Covenant Eschatology Lead to Universalism?  Simmons-Frost Debate - "This debate represents a turning point for Preterism as 30 years of King's influence on Preterism is shown to lead to Universalism!  Equally important,  King's Covenant Eschatology impugns the cross by holding it powerless to save until the Mosaic law was taken away.  Don't miss this watershed event.   Preterism will never be the same again.  (For the full text of the debate, see our web site.)" UP: Kurt Simmons - The Attack on Full Preterism: Which Death Was Defeated in AD70? - "As we have already seen, the essential tenant of Universalism is the corporate justification of man irrespective of faith or obedience. King’s “transformed cosmology” clearly holds the germ of Universalism: Salvation “is cosmic and corporate, not individual and limited.”  "Covenant Eschatology: Inherently Universalistic" The evidence is in: full Preterism is not the culprit linking Preterism to Universalism. The real culprits are false notions regarding the source and nature of mankind’s condemnation and his corporate justification as articulated by some in the Preterist community. Reformed Preterists, like Frost, interpret the “death” cast into the lake of fire in Rev. 20:14 as imputed Adamic guilt. King, on the other hand, equates it with annulment of the Mosaic law. 36 Because these are universal in terms of their asserted condemnation, their destruction works universal justification, apart from faith and obedience. As they unconditionally condemned, so their annulment unconditionally justifies. It is as if the whole race were arraigned before the court of heaven upon an indictment reciting these two laws. The annulment of those laws ipso facto destroys the indictment, as there is no longer any law to base an accusation upon. Hence, all men stand acquitted. In the words of Sam Frost: “There is no law taking into account our sins.”
LIMITED ATONEMENT	UNLIMITED ATONEMENT: UNIVERSALISM
Sam Frost: Universalism and Preterism: Bedfellows or Bedlam? "I won’t delve into the history of universalism only to say that it did not arise within preterist circles. It is, therefore, a fallacy to associate preterism with universalism, or to conclude that preterism necessarily leads to such. It is just as bad a logic to insist that Calvinism leads to disregard for evangelism or that driving a Volkswagen (German, for the “people’s car”), which was given the go ahead by Hitler, means you support Nazi-ism." David Curtis: Universalism? "Both the punishment and the life are designated by the same adjective, "aionios," clearly indicating their equal duration. It is regrettable that the translators used two different adjectives to translate the word, aionios. If one can be proved to be limited in duration, the other can by the same arguments" Don K. Preston: Ethics and Eschatology, Ethics and Universalism "the moral mandates–based on the righteousness of God Himself-- dictated by Paul were given to pre-parousia saints in light of the impending end of the age. That holiness is a permanent part of the very warp and woof of the New Creation. " John Riffe - Revelation 20 & Universalism "I know you are busy, but could you take just a brief moment and fill me in on how you view the Rev. 20 passage and how a wrong view there can open the door to universalism. Being slow of mind, it will help me to get up to speed. So thanks so much for doing this. Don't take a lot of time, just a brief response."	David Embury: A Response to Sam Frost's 'Bedfellows or Bedlam?' "Pantelism is both prêteristic and inclusionistic and views both eschatology and the redemption-reconciliation as finalised in Christ's AD70 Parousia. Some preterists refer to realised eschatology – pantelism concurs and further argues for prêteristic consistency in advocating realised redemption." David Embury: What is the Breadth of Grace? - "Thus in Christ's Parousia provisional righteousness is fulfilled and complete, becoming the promised righteousness. So righteousness being established the promise to Abraham is fulfilled - all families of the earth blessed [Gen 12:3]; thus righteousness was established in Christ's Coming for all humanity." Max King: All Israel Shall Be Saved "The biggest problem with the modern Universalist movement is that it tends to marginalize Christ and Scripture regarding the salvation of mankind. Typically, those espousing universal salvation do so apart from the covenantal framework of biblical eschatology. This breech creates a void that does irreparable damage to the redemptive story and relies more on philosophical presupposition than inspired prophetic fulfillment" Bill Spears: The Universalist Heresy? I am getting very frustrated with so-called orthodox Christians calling Universalism a heresy. I don't understand how anyone can consider the following five verses and still say that they are not saying that the scope of Christ's salvation does not extend to all of mankind.
Full Preterist "Eventual Gospel Universalism" FAULT LINE ON THE ISSUE OF THE FULFILLMENT OF PROPHECY'S "GRADUAL EFFECT" Sam Frost is a partial preterist:  Ward Fenley "Ah, yes. You must be referring to Sam Frost. Sam is a partial preterist, not a preterist. I'm not sure why, but he has grown more and more inconsistent in his hermeneutic. A lot of times this comes from pressure and a non-exegetical, non-covenantal approach to Scripture." (Responding to: "You know, regarding "the cosmological interpretation by so-called preterists" of Genesis creation, I recently heard a self-described preterist posit a future/physical interpretation of Isaiah 65 at a preterist conference. It would not be an overstatement, in my opinion, to say that the view he presented there represents a departure from full preterism.")  (cite: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/newcreationministries/message/2817) Sam Frost's Article About Isaiah 65 - "I am reading a great deal on Isaiah 65:17-ff. As a Preterist, we affirm the fulfillment of the passage (and I stress the ongoing fulfillment of this passage in terms of its gradual effects upon the creation – with some, this puts me out of the Full Preterist camp – which I could really give two hoots about)" (Full Preterist NCMI considers Frost's theology to be Universalism: " If Sam's equation is true, then yes, preterism = universalism.") Mike Sullivan Rebuts Sam Frost's Theology (2009) "Beloved, do not be deceived, is not biblical “preterism” rightly being taught concerning the timing and nature of God’s completed redemptive plan for man that many of us have come to know and love. It is carnal futurism both in the timing and nature of fulfillment – plain and simple. ""There is no more weeping, because God’s people have been forgiven of their sins. For all Partial Preterists and even some “Full Preterists,” this is a “Gnostic” and a shallow view of the passage. However, this is the NT’s eschatological goal of redemption, and we must reject their “literal phases” propped up with their invented “not yet” and “ongoing fulfillments” which the NT authors know nothing of taught  (sic)." Response by Dave Green: "900 year old naked men taming vegetarian lions while their kids play with cobras. lol Sounds like something the Beatles would have written while they were on LSD. :)"   ONE SOLUTION TO THE PRETERIST "UNIVERSALISM CONUNDRUM" "EVENTUAL GOSPEL UNIVERSALISM" ("a reign of truth and righteousness on the earth" in the future where "all men" are saved) "Surely, it was not in vain that Jesus said, ‘I am the Light of the World.’ ‘God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through him might be saved.’ ‘I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto myself.’" James Stuart Russell, The Parousia (emphasis in original) James Stuart Russell David Chilton (On "Eventual Gospel Universalism") (Writing as a Modern Preterist) ""It is certainly true that righteousness does not dwell in the earth in an absolute sense; nor will this world ever be absolutely righteous, until the final enemy is defeated at the Second Coming of Christ.. according to God's promise, the saving knowledge of Him will yet fill the earth, as the waters cover the sea." (Days of Vengeance, 544) (Writing as a Hyper Preterist)  "Once the Lord came to destroy the scaffolding of the Old Covenant structure, the New Covenant Temple would be left in its place, and the victorious march of the Church would be unstoppable.  According to God's predestined design, the world will be converted; the earth's treasures will be brought into the City of God, as the Paradise Mandate (Gen. 1:27-28; Matt. 28:18-20) is consummated (Rev. 21:1-27)." (from "New Heavens and Earth") James Stuart Russell's "Gospel Universalism" Conclusion to The Parousia "That favoured apostle who more than any other seems to have comprehended ‘the breadth, and length, and depth, and height of the love of Christ,’ suggests to us ideas of the extent and efficiency of the great redemption which our latent incredulity can scarcely receive. " (UP: Added "Gospel Universalism" as new category of Universalist-Preterism : "a reign of truth and righteousness on the earth" in the future ; "This world belongs no more to the devil, but to God. Christ has redeemed it, and will recover it, and draw all men unto Him.") ONE SOLUTION TO FP UNIVERSALIST CONUNDRUM IS PLACING UNIVERSAL CONVERSION FARTHER INTO THE FUTURE -- BUT DOES SUCH A GRAND FUTURE EXPECTATION (THE "PARADISE MANDATE" YET TO BE CONSUMMATED) STILL QUALIFY AS FULL PRETERISM?    IF THE BIBLE ANTICIPATES WORLD-WIDE CONVERSION.. WOULDN'T THAT BE A PROPHECY AS OF YET UNFULFILLED?   Kurt Simmons vs. Corporate Resurrection (Max King) Studies Regarding the Errors & Cult of Max King - By Kurt Simmons, the full preterist most critical of the errors found within full preterism. (And author of new commentary on the book of Daniel) Kurt Simmons: The Sword and the Plow - August 2007 (PDF File) "This We Believe..."  A Preterist Statement of Faith; and The Great Debate: Does King's Covenant Eschatology Lead to Universalism?  Simmons-Frost Debate - "This debate represents a turning point for Preterism as 30 years of King's influence on Preterism is shown to lead to Universalism!  Equally important,  King's Covenant Eschatology impugns the cross by holding it powerless to save until the Mosaic law was taken away.  Don't miss this watershed event.   Preterism will never be the same again.  (For the full text of the debate, see our web site.)" Kurt M. Simmons - Four Errors Current Among Preterists (2007)  "The idea that the heavens and earth destroyed at the eschaton were the old law, naturally led to the idea that the new heavens and earth are the New Testament. King taught it; I taught it; many of us taught it. Unfortunately, it just is not true."   "It seems that the idea, common among so many FP's, that the new Heavens and Earth are the New Testament is among the culprits that lead logically to Universalism.  I agree.  If the New Heavens and Earth are the NT, then, yes, logically all men are partakers of grace for the simple fact that all men are under their umbrella. This is Max King's view and many FP's (myself at one time included) believe this.  But I no longer see the New Heavens and Earth (or old heavens and earth of II Pet. 3:10ff) "covenantally".  Hence, whatever objection there is to FP on this basis does not apply to me and others like me (who are many).  We need to STOP interpreting the heavens and earth covenantally.  Rev. 22:15 is very clear that the wicked are in the New heavens and earth.  Hence, they CANNOT be the New Testament.  It is the New Jerusalem that is the New Testament and covenantal habitation of the saints.  The new heavens and earth are merely a symbol for the post-parousia world under the victorious Christ in which the church reigns with Jesus and God is present with his people legally and covenantally (restored in relationship by Christ's blood) in the church." ("Archives of Confusion" Thread) Rapture Removal of Christians in 1st Century Preterist Rapture Study Archive   RAPTURE REMOVAL NO RAPTURE REMOVAL     Walt Hibbard "Therefore, it would have come as no surprise to them when they actually saw the Lord Jesus at His parousia, finding comfort in the words that John so poignantly expressed in I John 3:2 “it has not yet been revealed what we shall be, but we know that when He is revealed, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is” (NKJV) No spiritually interpreted view of these magnificent promises could every meet the requirements of these inspired verses when viewed only as a “covenant change” type of “fulfillment.” These passages literally “beg” for a literal fulfillment; they are talking about real bodies, not abstract ideas of collectivism." Ed Stevens: Silence Demands a Rapture "A rapture easily explains why no Christian after AD 70 mentioned the occurrence of the parousia (they weren't around to document it).  So when a non-rapture preterist asserts that the rapture preterist has a "documentation problem," it leaves three fingers pointing back at him.  The non-rapture preterist has three other events to find documentation for (parousia, resurrection and judgment). " Walt Hibbard: Five Views of the AD70 Rapture - "..Mr. Ian Harding of Australia. I see his refinement of "The Literal Rapture Expectation" view, which I have called simply "The Perfect Is Heaven" view, as the only preterist view of the rapture and related events that meets the full requirements of scripture." Walt Hibbard: Reply to Sam Frost's Analysis and Critique of Taken to Heaven in AD70: Blessings Expected a the Parousia By Ian D. Harding - "At this point I think it is only fair, open and honest to urge the “heaven now” preterists to return to sanity in their eschatological studies. If they choose not to do so, they are laying themselves wide open for ridicule and laughter from the entire futurist community and many preterists as well – and even worse will do insurmountable damage to the preterist cause, and to the credibility and honor of the Lord Jesus Christ, the very One whom preterists strive to honor in virtue of their adopting the preterist viewpoint! " Gabor Gombor: Word Games on the Rapture - "The critic who stands against the physical rapture fights against a picture of saints flying into the space. It is the next word game with the “air”. Why did not use the author the world “ouranos” here? Let us realize that a rapture does not require flying into sky. The spiritual-physical rapture does not require for a body to fly up. The body can simply disappear and the invisible new uncorrupted body emanates to the Lord. " Arthur Melanson: What About the First Century Rapture? - "About this time Ed Stevens, after long study, wrote and published a book, Expectations Demand a Rapture. Walt Hibbard wrote one foreword for Ed’s book, we wrote the other. The book has met with intense opposition. Nevertheless, it is a breakthrough of major proportions. It’s not that Ed has discovered the rapture; that knowledge is as old as Scripture, but it is a major breakthrough in seeing and understanding what the first century Christians knew and understood. It’s a breakthrough that has the power to give fresh, accurate insight to the preterist movement." Earnest Hampden-Cook "JOHN xxi. 21-23. - It is possible to see in this passage a suggestion that the "rapture" or "translation" of the saints at the coming of the Lord would not exempt their earthly bodies from death, but would mean the ascension of their spirits, their real and innermost selves, to Heaven in new and glorified bodies, resembling that in which the Lord Jesus ascended." James Stuart Russell "We naturally enough say, were such an event as the sudden and simultaneous disappearance of a number of prominent persons from our town, or village, or neighbourhood, to take place, what a sensation it would cause, what alarm and consternation. It would be reported all over the land, it would be the topic of conversation in every company. Very true; but suppose all this occured when the country was in the occupation of a foreign army, when the invaders were marching through the land, leaving devastation and ruin everywhere in their track. Suppose the metropolis in a state of siege, captured, burnt to the ground; fire, famine and slaughter raging, in every quarter; all social order convsulsed amid the agonies of an expiring nation. What sensation would the disappearance of some, of the members of a despised sect excite in such circumstances? Would they be missed? Or if missed would it be thought unaccountable? Amidst the fearful signs and portents of that tremendous crisis the disappearance of the Christians might pass without notice." Dan Harden: Response to Walt Hibbard's Support of Ian Harding's Book - "..(O)ur spiritual condition is drastically different from those of the pre-Parousial saints, based solely on the fact that our High Priest returned and brought back with Him our completed atonement.  Christ has made us whiter than snow, blameless before the Lord, despite our shortcomings.  What was a promise / deposit for the pre-Parousial saints is a reality for us today -- even while living on Earth.  Our going to Heaven when we die is BECAUSE of these fulfilled promises.  We don't look forward to them being fulfilled in fullness when we die, or else we would never be qualified to make it on our own, for we are unable to do so on our own.  Indeed, if we didn't have glory in fullness already, we couldn't go to Heaven at all, for God cannot abide anything less than perfection.  But our entrance into Heaven is assured because we already have Eternal Life in fullness NOW!" Sam Frost: An Analysis and Critique of Taken to Heaven in A.D. 70:  Blessings Expected at the Parousia "One begins to see that Harding’s definitions of what we do not have yet is rooted in an empirical bias.  That is, we can’t “see” it, so it cannot be so.  We still suffer, we still die, we still groan and we still are subject to error when it comes to seeing God.  In fact, Harding has reduced theology while on earth to “vague spiritual and mental conceptions” (322).  That is, “There is in the present, the perception an acknowledgment of true and good things – the things of God, and the person of Christ, etc., but the perception is unclear, obscure, puzzling” (321).  In heaven we will see God “face to face” but on earth our knowledge is “very imperfect” (321) of God. " Nathan DuBois: My Response to Ed Stevens' Book "Expectations Demand a Rapture" "I promised Ed Stevens my critique on his book and I will do my utmost to be thorough and precise in everything he has written and everything I espouse. I will respond in the order that Ed has presented the arguments in this book, from preface to conclusion. I, from the beginning, admit this is an area where I have a strong stance against a physical rapture. As I have stated to many of my friends in correspondence and debate, a proper understanding of exactly what the first century Christians did expect is important in our understanding of the whole gospel and it's place in our lives toady. This is an important issue, not to salvation, but to the knowledge of our Lord God and His plan for mankind in this world, which human kind will inhabit forever." Dr. Kelly Nelson Birks: Response to 'Silence Demands a Rapture' - "the Thessalonians, who could not conceive of the nature of the harpazo at Christ’s Parousia in the least (and we don’t do a very good job of it either), would begin to grasp that the meeting with the Lord was to be a personal meeting “within” the believer." Preterist Rapture Challenge - "If you believe that the Rapture took place in 70 A.D. at the alleged Second Advent of YAHSHUA, IMMANUEL, YAHWEH of Nazareth the Mashiyach (a.k.a. Jesus Christ) please take this challenge." Local vs. Universal Application The "Eschaton" & II Peter 3 LOCAL APPLICATION UNIVERSAL APPLICATION Don Preston: The Passing of the Elements: 2 Peter 3:10 "Peter, in 2 Peter 3, wrote of the passing of the "elements" of Old Covenant Israel. To negate the power of this argument one must prove that Paul discussed the passing of two different kinds of "elements" and "worlds."  The evidence presented in this brief article shows that the focus of Peter's — and thus the Bible's — is Covenantal and not Historical. " Kurt M. Simmons: Rethinking II Peter III: Toward a More Expansive Understanding of the Eschaton "In this article we examine II Peter 3:7-13 and decide that the heavens and earth that were marked for destruction involved considerably more than merely Old Testament Judaism, Jerusalem, and the temple." - "the eschaton was universal" Annihilationism vs. Eternal Conscious Torment
John L. Bray: The Fate of the Wicked "The picture of sinners being cast into a literal fire where for endless ages upon ages, without ever any end, they suffer in horrible agony and pain is not the picture found in the Bible.  No one wrote about such, and the silence is deafening!" Gabor Gombor: A Response to "Regarding Annihilationism" "According to the Preterist viewpoint the “age to come” is the period after AD 70. Believers in Christ receive “everlasting” life now."	Ed Stevens: Regarding "Annihilationism" "Now I wish there was some hermeneutical or exegetical way to physicalize or spiritualize this text out of existence, but the stark reality of a real eternal torment in a spiritual place called the Lake of Fire is too clear in this text.  Hell exists forever and ever, and the wicked and demons who go there will consciously experience the torment day and night forever and ever.  Scary, isn't it?  It should be." Arthur Melanson: Annihilation?  Heaven Now?  Universalism? "heaven now (Christians are in “heaven now” via covenantal change rather than physical death)..  these “ideas” are false..  these “ideas” fail to recognize the unalterable, eternal state. "

Celebration of the Lord's Supper What do Preterists Believe About the Lord's Supper? The Lord's Supper: Is it for Today?
SHOULD BE CELEBRATED SPIRITUALLY ONLY	SHOULD BE CELEBRATED SPIRITUALLY, BUT WITH TEMPORAL OBSERVATION
Richard McPherson: The Lord's Supper "I myself believe that the so call “Lord’s Supper” in not necessary today. At the same time, I am not saying that the people who still partake the “Lord’s Supper” are wrong. It is because of our freedom in Christ we can disagree on this topic."	David Curtis: Preterism and the Lord's Supper "Redemption is complete, we are now dwelling in the promise land of the New heaven and earth, in the very presence of God. As we observe the Lord's Supper, we celebrate a completed redemption."

Nature and Perpetuity of "The Bride of Christ" Ward Fenley - Letter to Ron (2009) "I don't believe in local churches in a post AD 70 era. I believe in the universal church where no laws bind us from love, patience, goodness, faith, temperance, etc..."against such there is no law." You are assuming that I consider our fellowship a "local" church. We are "the" church inasmuch as every believer is a part of "the" church."
BRIDE OF CHRIST CORPORATE AND ETERNAL, OUTWARDLY REPRESENTED BY "THE CHURCH"	BRIDE OF CHRIST FIRST CENTURY GROUP, THERE IS NO OUTWARD "CHURCH" PAST THEN
Ward Fenley: "I cannot fault the general heading of preterism..  just because a few have chosen to follow a rabbit trail leading to one of these beliefs with which I disagree. For example, I strongly disagree with any belief that teaches that none of the NT blessings of eternal life are applicable today. But that doesn't mean it is a result of preterism." (The General Beliefs of Preterists)	John McPherson: The Kingdom of Heaven -- Not the Church "There is NO room for human authority to share the authority of Christ Jesus our King and Sovereign within our New Covenant Kingdom. Those of us who have gained membership within the Kingdom via circumcision in heart and spiritual rebirth have NO accountability to human authorities of any kind. Anyone who believes otherwise must demonstrate this to be the case from the texts focusing on THE KINGDOM – NOT the Church."

NO CONSENSUS IN "HYPER PRETERISM"

1. Jesus' Return in Glory - Was in it in AD70, AD66, or BOTH?
   
   A. Jesus' Return in Glory Was in it in AD70
   
   William Bell -  "What was true of Noah's day was also true regarding the coming of Christ in A.D.70 at the fall of Jerusalem." (A Boat Divided)
   
   "Jesus sounded pretty sure of himself regarding the time. He knew surely that he was coming quickly and that the time was at hand. Now that is just as it was in the days of Noah, general revelation initially, but precise information near the end! As can be observed, the New Testament gives many signs and time statements most of which occur during the final twelve years leading up to A.D.70, depicting the soon approaching parousia." (A Boat Divided)
   
   David Curtis "That which is perfect refers to the maturity of the body at the rapture of the church, which happened at the second coming of Christ, bringing in the New Heavens and New Earth which closed the cannon. This all took place in AD 70, when the Lord returned, bringing in the New Heaven and Earth where we see Him face to face. So the coming again of our Lord for his people brought them to full maturity. " (The Permanence of Love)
   
   "Jesus very clearly tells his disciples that before the temple would be destroyed and before His parousia and the end of the age, the gospel must be preached in all the world. And it was! The temple was destroyed! He arrived in full glory! The Old Covenant age ended! " (The Permanence of Love)
   
   Walt Hibbard - "The Second Coming of Christ, the Resurrection of the Dead from out of Hades, the Judgment of the Sheep and the Goats, the Marriage Supper of the Lamb – all would take place literally and coinciding with the Roman army's march, immediately after the tribulation of those days. For then “the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ shall rise first. When we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air (I Thess. 4:16-17). This was a literal “catching up” of all true believers on earth at that time." (The Expectation and Logic of a Literal Catching Up)
   
   Don Preston - "We are convinced the only construct of Mark 8:38-9:1 and parallels which satisfies the chronological and contextual demands is to understand Jesus predicting his return in full glory to judge all men... This happened in 70 A.D. when he destroyed Jerusalem"  (An Airtight Argument)
   
   Ed Stevens - "Since that generation passed, those events (including His return) must already have happened. Therefore, the passage about not knowing the day or hour no longer applies to us, because the return is a past event. We now know (historically) the day and hour of His return (70 A.D.). We no longer need signs to tell when it is getting close. It is a past event." (That Day and Hour?)
   
   B. Jesus' Return in Glory Was in AD66
   
   Ed Stevens - "The saints were being persecuted. Christ would come and give them relief (AD 66), and at the same time give tribulation to their persecutors. We are talking about two different phases of the tribulation, with Christ’s return in the middle (the first against the saints in AD 62 - 66, and the second against their persecutors in AD 66-70). 
   
   "If the angelic armies literally seen in the clouds at AD 66 were the fulfillment of ‘every eye shall see Him’ (Rev. 1:7) as Sproul has allowed as a possibility, then it was also the fulfillment of Acts 1:11!" (Foreword to the new edition of James Stuart Russell’s The Parousia Bradford, PA: International, p. xii)
   
   So which is it, AD66 or AD70 !?  Can't be both.  Or is there a THIRD COMING (One in 66 and one in 70)  ?
   
    

2. When Did the Old Covenant End ?  AD30, AD70, or Both ?

   A. The End of the Old Covenant Age ("This Age") was in AD70
   
   Don Preston - "Paul's statement that the bondwoman and her son, representative of the Old Covenant, was yet to be cast out — for persecuting Christians — is prima fascia proof that the Old Testament did not pass at the cross as is traditionally maintained by many. Paul emphatically says the Old Covenant people would be cast out for persecuting Christians, the children of promise (Galatians 4:28-30).  This persecution patently did not occur prior to the cross. Thus, Israel could not have been cut off at the cross." (The Passing of the Elements)
   
   "This New World was consummated when God destroyed his old people, Isaiah 65:13ff, the Old Jerusalem; the Old Heavens and Earth of Judaism, Isaiah 51:15-16; bringing to a close the Old World (Age, Matthew 24:3) and bringing to glorious perfection, 1 Cor. 13:8, the New World. That time was when Jesus returned and destroyed the capital and hub of the Old World, Jerusalem, in A.D. 70." (More On No Death, No Sorrow, No Pain)
   
   Michael Sartori - "I would contend that the O/C passed away in AD70 and the N/C commenced in AD70, at the destruction of Jerusalem. " (Magi Forum -http://jaygary.com/starof2000/discus/messages/1/1.html)

   
   BOTH

   JL Vaughn "The most common preterist view is the New Covenant came into being over the period starting with Christ's ministry and ending in AD 70. The Old Covenant ended over that same period. So the correct answer is not a specific point in time, but a period of time over which the process occurred. The New Covenant came in fullness (was completed) in AD 70 when the Old Covenant was fully ended and everything was completed.  The New Covenant started during Jesus' ministry and developed over a period of over 40 years." (PP Forum post, 6/5/8)
   
    

3. When Did the New Covenant "Age to Come" Start ?   AD30, AD70, or Both ?
   
   A. The Start of the New Covenant Age ("The Age to Come") was in AD70
   
   William Bell - "We all know when it fell, in A.D.70! Entrance into the Most Holy is a blessing of the "age to come." Entrance was opened up at the fall of the temple. Therefore, the blessings of the "age to come" were opened up or received at the fall of the temple, specifically ETERNAL LIFE!" (This Present Evil Age)
   
   "How confusing it would have been for Jesus to direct the apostles to the end of the Christian age which is endless and had not yet begun when the very age in which they were living had not reached its consummation!." (When Did Miracles Cease)
   
   "Namely, that when Jesus answered their objection to the resurrection on the grounds that it did not consist in the fleshly dimension of the Jewish aeon (this age) but in the eternal new covenant aeon (age to come) wherein sonship in Christ is equated with resurrection." (The Dead Are Raised)
   
   Michael Hill - "Christ's eschaton.. began at the cross and ended in his parousia (presence/coming) at Jerusalem at the end of the 7-year war with Rome.. Thus, true to Jesus' words, that old world ended, the dead were judged, the saved were resurrected, and a whole new realm of grace began" (The Cure for Millennial Madness, p. 3).
   
   New Earth Christian Studies - "The Christians of the time were in a unique position: They were living not just between covenants, but in the end times of the Old Covenant which coincided with the beginning of the New." (God's Promises Fulfilled)
   
   Don Preston - "This New World was consummated when God destroyed his old people, Isaiah 65:13ff, the Old Jerusalem; the Old Heavens and Earth of Judaism, Isaiah 51:15-16; bringing to a close the Old World (Age, Matthew 24:3) and bringing to glorious perfection, 1 Cor. 13:8, the New World. That time was when Jesus returned and destroyed the capital and hub of the Old World, Jerusalem, in A.D. 70." (More On No Death, No Sorrow, No Pain)
   
   "I believe the only scenario that satisfies the teaching of the Old and New Covenants concerning the Dawning of the New Day is when Christ returned in judgment, destroying the Old World of Darkness and Death, II Corinthians 3. This patently was not on Pentecost; the New Testament writers, writing after Pentecost saw the Day as still future, but imminent, I Peter 4:5,7; James 5:7-9. The New Day fully came in 70 AD when Jesus returned in judgment of the Old World of Darkness and brought the New Day of Salvation. The Day has come." (The Day Has Come)
   
   Michael Sartori - "I would contend that the O/C passed away in AD70 and the N/C commenced in AD70, at the destruction of Jerusalem. " (Magi Forum -http://jaygary.com/starof2000/discus/messages/1/1.html)
   
   Ed Stevens - "That 40-year period between Pentecost and Holocaust was just a transition phase between “this age” and “the age about to come.” It is “the age about to come” that was to be the eternal one. We have several examples of 40-year transitional periods in the OT (wilderness wandering, David’s reign, etc.). According to Moses and the prophets the transition between the two ages was not supposed to be eternal, nor even a long protracted period." (Stevens Responds to Gentry)
   
   "At AD70, Jesus returned and ended the last days of the Jewish nation.  It was God's Great and Glorious Day for the vindication of His people, and an awesome day of judgment and destruction for those who had rejected and crucified Jesus.. The last days of the Jewish nation ended then.  A new age had begun." (What Happened in AD70?, p. 29)
   
   
   B. The New Covenant Age ("The Age to Come") was initiated in AD30, but not completed Until AD70
   
   William Bell - "The "present time" denotes a "then present" period of transition from the Old to the New Covenant. This did not occur instantaneously at Pentecost (A.D.33) but gradually within the framework of the Cross - A.D.70 time frame" (Illusion of Conclusion)
   
   New Earth Christian Studies - "If they were looking forward to something, waiting eagerly for it, then they did not yet possess it in its fullness. And yet, there was always a sense in which they already owned it. They had the down payment. It was not that the New Covenant had not yet begun: It had, but it was not in full effect, until the Old Covenant was utterly destroyed." (God's Promises Fulfilled) 
   
   Don Preston "We thus have the passing of one world and the anticipation of another. The Old World is the Old Covenant World of Israel that anticipated and predicted the coming of the Messiah — these predictions were part of the elements, the first principles of Christ. The New World, the World to come, was initiated by the passion of Jesus and his work of atonement. The perfection of that atoning work would be his parousia (Hebrews 9:28)." (The Passing of the Elements)
   
   "If they were looking forward to something, waiting eagerly for it, then they did not yet possess it in its fullness. And yet, there was always a sense in which they already owned it. They had the down payment. It was not that the New Covenant had not yet begun: It had, but it was not in full effect, until the Old Covenant was utterly destroyed.  The Christians of the time were in a unique position: They were living not just between covenants, but in the end times of the Old Covenant which coincided with the beginning of the New." (God's Promises Fulfilled)  - So which is it, AD30 or AD70 !?  Can't be both.  Or is there a THIRD AGE ("This Age to Come")? 
   
   
   D. The END of the New Covenant Age ("The Age to Come") was in AD70
   
   "I don't think the old covenant ceased at the cross of Christ. It was done at the destruction of Jerusalem. After the cross, its began to fade away as we've seen in the book of Hebrews. The new covenant began on the Day of Pentecost which the saints were filled with the holy spirit and Christ was their King. Now, this may be an interesting part, the judgment began at 66 AD when the saints were "raised" and "received" the thrones of kingdom with the parousia of Christ at that time, not 70 AD yet. See Rev. 11:15-19; Matt. 19:28; and Luke 22:30. The old covenant and the new covenant were overlaping during 30-70 AD. It seems that BOTH WERE ENDED at 70 AD. When all things (the judgment, the enemies, the resurrection, the kingdom, the death, the covenants, and the Law) that were subjected to him, he delivered up to his God (Yahweh) the Father which He may be all in all. (http://newjerusalemministriesboards.com/showthread.php?p=19198#post19198)
   
    

4. When Was the Church Established ?  AD30, AD70, or Both ?
   
   A. Preston: The Church Was Not Established at Pentecost
   
   Don Preston "A key point of controversy surrounding the Preterist view of eschatology is the contention that the church/kingdom was not fully established on Pentecost but was in a state of incompletion until the Old World was taken out of the way in A.D.70. Every anti-Preterist which this writer has read or heard has made a major issue over this point. It would seem that this issue is one which our opponents believe is dangerous, and evidently they believe it easy to refute. As we shall seek to demonstrate, however, it is not the Preterist that has a problem with this issue, it is the one who holds to the traditional concept of eschatology; and especially in regard to the miraculous work of the Holy Spirit. (A Full Grown Baby?)
   
   B. Preston: The Church Was Established at Pentecost
   
   Don Preston "We are not here arguing that the kingdom was not established on Pentecost. We do aver it was established in infancy." (An Airtight Argument)
   
    

5. When Was the Resurrection?  Was it in AD30, Was it in AD70, or Both?
   
   A. AD30: The Resurrection Began in AD30 and Ended in AD70
   
   William Bell - "It is transparent that Paul has pointed the direction of the Philippians upward, eagerly looking for the Savior who would complete the resurrection already in progress, v.11. ." (Phil. 4:5 Spatiology or Eschatology?)
   
   B. AD70: The Resurrection Was Solely in AD70
   
   Max R. King - "This captivity was symbolic of the captive state of the New Testament saints during the last days of fleshly Israel. They were oppressed and persecuted until the very end of that second Babylon (I Thess. 2:14-16). The fall of Babylon (Israel) and the resurrection of the saints to their homeland, the new heaven and earth, are the basic theme of God's final revelation to man. As with national Israel in ancient Babylon, the release or deliverance of the saints from Israel (Babylon) was the opening of the graves and the bringing forth of all into judgment," (The Spirit of Prophecy, p. 219).
   
   C. AD30 and 70: The Resurrection Was in Progress, But Wasn't Attained Until AD70
   
   William Bell - "In chapter 3, Paul speaks of attaining to the resurrection of the dead, v.11, which equates with being made perfect (telios), and obtaining the prize of the high calling, (Phil.3:12,14; Eph.4:13).  Finally, after another reference to the destruction of Jewish adversaries, whose hope was in their fleshly status and circumcision, (3:1-6); whose righteousness was derived from the works of the law, (v.9); and whose mind was on the earthly things or commonwealth of Jerusalem, its temple and sacrifices, etc., (v.19), Paul looks up with his affections set on the heavenly things above (Col.3:1,2), and declares, "For our citizenship is in heaven, from which also we eagerly wait for a Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ; who will transform the body of our humble state into conformity with the body of His glory, by the exertion of the power that He has even to subject all things to Himself" (Phil.3:20,21).  It is transparent that Paul has pointed the direction of the Philippians upward, eagerly looking for the Savior who would complete the resurrection already in progress, v.11. ." (Phil. 4:5 Spatiology or Eschatology?)
    

6. When is the Bodily Resurrection?  AD70 or in the future, after Death?  Or Two Different Resurrections of the Just?
   
   A. The Resurrection is in the Future, After Physical Death (Wouldn't This by HYPO-Preterism??)
   
   Jessie Mills - "Since Christ has already returned, believers now receive their new bodies immediately at death." (Revelation Survey, p. 168)
   
   B. The Resurrection was in AD70
   
   Jessie Mills - "The dead in Hades (sheol) were indeed disembodied  while waiting for Christ's return.  At Christ's return, the dead in the unseen realm of Hades were raised out of Hades and given their new immortal bodies that had been reserved for them." (Revelation Survey, p. 168)
    

7. When the Gospel Start / Cease?
   
   A. Paul's Gospel Didn't Apply to the Pre-AD70 World
   
   William Bell - "If Demas forsook Paul for the present age (alleged Christian age) then in what age did that leave Paul? Not the Jewish age if it passed away at the cross. Not the "age to come," since it is argued to be yet future.  Can we attribute the present age to which Demas apostatized as the age which Christ came to establish? Does not this passage show clearly that the gospel which Paul held firmly till his death (2 Timothy 4:6-8) did not belong to the "present age" of scripture? What a bind we all are in today if loving the Christian age is apostasy." (This Present Evil Age)
   
   B. Paul's Gospel Applied ONLY to the Pre-AD70 World
   
    

8. When Was The Judgment Of "All Men" ?
   
   A. The Judgment of "All Men" was in AD70
   
   William Bell - "Having died in faith, they were yet (about A.D. 64) awaiting the promise of resurrection into the eternal kingdom, (Heb.11:39-40). Although the time was then future, it was not in the far distant future for the city for which they looked was about to come, (Heb.13:14), and was said to be at hand, (Rev.1:1,3; 21:2)." (The Dead Are Raised) 
   
   "Similarly, the resurrection of saints from hades and the change of the "living" as far as we know, was not perceivable to the physical eye. The limits of physical observation do not deny, disprove, or otherwise negate the clear teachings of scripture that the resurrection occurred in 70 A.D., in connection with the fall of Jerusalem " (Challenging Concepts of the Resurrection)
   
   "The time of this judgment equals the time that the patriarchs as well as the saints from the east, west, north and south sit down or inherit the kingdom and corresponds with their resurrection.    Jesus speaks of the gathering of the elect from the four winds during the fall of Jerusalem in 70 A.D." (Illusion of Conclusion)

   David Curtis -" The destruction of Jerusalem evidenced Jesus' coming in the clouds for that historical group of people. But are we to see it only as a coming in judgement on Israel? The full preterist or consistent preterist sees this judgement coming on Israel as the second advent of Christ. Jesus said that he would come in the lifetime of his disciples not just to judge Israel but: he said he would come in the glory of His father, with His angels, to reward every man.    At Christ's coming he was to judge the wicked and reward the righteous, and it was to happen quickly. In the parable of the tares in Matthew 13 we see that the judgement of the wicked and the reward of the righteous happen at the same time." (The Book of Revelation)
   
   Stephen Douglas - "At the time of the emptying of Sheol as a result of the judgment in AD 70, the living and the those who had died before that time were judged based on their faithfulness to God." (undeception.wordpress.com/2007/11/01/common-objections-to-full-preterism-below-the-surface/#comments)
   
   Max R. King - "This captivity was symbolic of the captive state of the New Testament saints during the last days of fleshly Israel. They were oppressed and persecuted until the very end of that second Babylon (I Thess. 2:14-16). The fall of Babylon (Israel) and the resurrection of the saints to their homeland, the new heaven and earth, are the basic theme of God's final revelation to man. As with national Israel in ancient Babylon, the release or deliverance of the saints from Israel (Babylon) was the opening of the graves and the bringing forth of all into judgment," (The Spirit of Prophecy, p. 219).
   
   Don Preston - "We are convinced the only construct of Mark 8:38-9:1 and parallels which satisfies the chronological and contextual demands is to understand Jesus predicting his return in full glory to judge all men... This happened in 70 A.D. when he destroyed Jerusalem"  (An Airtight Argument)
   
   
   B. The Judgment of "All Men" was a Process Completed in AD70
   
   William Bell - "It is transparent that Paul has pointed the direction of the Philippians upward, eagerly looking for the Savior who would complete the resurrection already in progress, v.11.  Clearly, the expectation of the Parousia is in full focus." (Philippians 4:5 - Spatiology or Eschatology)
   
    

9. Who Was Judged ("All Men") in AD70 ?
   
   A. The Living and the Dead Before That Time
   
   William Bell - "In addition, it is not without significance that this gathering of the saints in Matt.24:31, is preceded by the great sound or voice (marginal rendering) of a trumpet. Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob heard "this" trumpet. It therefore signaled the universal gathering of saints from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven, (Mk.13:27; 2 Thess.2:1; Heb.10:25), as well as the raising of the patriarchs and prophets from the dead, (Rom.4:16; Heb.11:39-40). This can be none other than the trump of God of 1 Thess.4:16, and the last trump of 1 Cor.15:52. If not, then do the scriptures teach two separate gatherings preceded by two universal trumpets? Why make them all the more confusing (a fact evidenced by the attempt to divide Matthew 24), by placing them both at a coming of Christ, a consummation of an age, a gathering together of the elect in the clouds, and an inheriting of the kingdom, (Matt.8:11-12, 24:3, 30-31, 34; 1 Cor.15:23-24, 50-52; 1 Thess.4:14-17)? It should be readily apparent that the trumpet is one and the same. Equally certain is the fact that Matthew 24 places the sounding of that trumpet at the fall of Jerusalem in A.D. 70, before that first-century generation passed, (Matt.24:31,34). " (The Dead Are Raised)
   
   Stephen Douglas - "At the time of the emptying of Sheol as a result of the judgment in AD 70, the living and the those who had died before that time were judged based on their faithfulness to God." (undeception.wordpress.com/2007/11/01/common-objections-to-full-preterism-below-the-surface/#comments)
   
   B. Fleshly Israel"
   
   William Bell - "The parable of the tares likewise expressed the difficulty of determining the tares (fleshly Israel) from the wheat (spiritual Israel or sons of God), during the pre-end-of-the-age transition which was consummated in A.D.70, (Mt.13:29,30; 37-40)."  (Illusion of Conclusion)
   
    

10. When Did Supernatural Power of Evil Cease ?  Was it in AD30, Was it in AD70, or Both?
    
    A. Supernatural Powers of Evil Ceased in AD70
    
    William Bell - "It also explains the cessation of demon possession and the supernatural powers of evil spirits which were independent of apostles' hands or disciples' vital signs. The cessation of prophecy and demon possession was linked to the fulfillment of old testament prophecy." (When Did Miracles Cease)
    
    David Curtis - "Their father was the devil, the god of the Jewish age. Satan held them in bondage through the law. They were the physical seed of Abraham but not the true seed of Abraham." (Israel of God)
    
    Jessie Mills - "Satan has already been given his kingdom in the lake of fire, and he no longer walks up and down, to and fro, seeking whom he may devour.  His powers are curtailed.. Christ is now ruler of the this world." (Revelation Survey, p. 256) 
    
    "Nero declared war on Israel Feb 10 AD67. After the judgment of Rev. 20:4 Satan was loosed for a short period and when he accomplished God's will he was cast into the lake of fire.  So at the most 4 months would fulfil those events in the this time frame.  See Luke 21:20-22." (Revelation Survey, p. 163) 
    
    Don Preston - "But Jesus comes in judgment on that apostate city and destroys her. In chapter 20 judgment is set, Satan is cast into the lake of fire; and Jesus takes his glorious bride unto himself! This all happened in 70 AD with the full destruction of the Theocracy of Israel, the persecuting city of Jerusalem, the Old Heavens and Earth. The New Creation is complete--what Satan had succeeded in getting man to forfeit, communion with God and eternal life, is restored. Satan lost — God finished His work." (The Binding of Satan)
    
    B. Supernatural Powers of Evil Ceased in AD30
    
    Dan Harden -“Yes the effect of human sin is sufficient to account for all of the horrible expressions of wickedness that we see in our world today. We find little excuse to blame Satan for the evil about us. Christ has tied up the strong one and plundered his house”  
    
     

11. The Seventieth Week of Daniel - AD30s or AD70s ?
    
    A. The Seventieth Week was in the AD30s.
     
    Jessie Mills - "Therefore we see the balance of the last 'week' beginning when the Holy Spirit is poured out upon the twelve (Pentecost), and the teaching of Christ goes forth." (Daniel's Fulfilled Prophecy, p. 149)
    
     

12. The Christianity of the Bible Not the Christianity of Post AD70 World
    
    William Bell - "The confirmation or proof of the apostles' inspiration and miraculous power was their very ability to confer or impart miraculous gifts to believers through the laying on of their hands, (Acts 6:5,6; 8:17,18; 19:6; II Tim. 1:6). It is important, however, that one take into consideration the time frame of what is taught in Mk. 16:17-18."
    
    The Lord was "with" the apostles in the "miraculous" confirmation of the word. Matthew's account of the great commission affirms the same. "Teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age, (Mt. 28:20, NASV). Is one to suppose that the Lord miraculously confirmed the apostles' preaching but not their teaching? Was he not "with" them in their teaching in the same way? Here, then, is the Lord promising to guide the apostles in inspiration and to confirm their words through imparting signs through them until the END OF THE AGE!  This is the Jewish age which lasted until 70 A.D." (When Did Miracles Cease?)
    
    "Paul states that the gift of inspiration to apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors, and teachers would continue till "we all come to the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect (full-grown) man, (Eph. 4:11-14). It has been demonstrated that the full-grown man (perfect) state is equivalent in meaning and time to "when that which is perfect is come," and the "face to face" presence of Christ, (1 Cor. 13:8-12; Rev. 22:4). Things equal to the same thing are equal to one another. Therefore the "unity of the faith" equals to the "face to face" presence in the revelation of Jesus Christ at the end of the Jewish age.

    Dan Harden - “The Great Commission was a special time of inspired Apostolic activity that will never be repeated”  
    
    New Earth Christian Studies - "It was not that the New Covenant had not yet begun: It had, but it was not in full effect, until the Old Covenant was utterly destroyed. They were free of it's burden of slavery, but until the first tabernacle was removed, the way into the Holy Place and complete access to God was not disclosed. The Christians of the time were in a unique position: They were living not just between covenants, but in the end times of the Old Covenant which coincided with the beginning of the New." (God's Promises Fulfilled)
    
    Michael Sartori "Is the church (in it's current traditional format) really how it is supposed to be? As a Full Preterist I tend to believe the church set up / government as established in the N/T was for a transitional period, from AD 30 to AD70." (Magi Forum - http://jaygary.com/starof2000/discus/messages/1/1.html) 
    
    "Miracles were still in use to confirm Jesus' teaching and authority and the Old Covenant had not yet passed away (Hebrews 8:13). The church still needed pastors, elders, shepherds etc. to enable the transition to run smoothly. "  (Magi Forum -http://jaygary.com/starof2000/discus/messages/1/1.html)
    
    Ed Stevens - "That 40-year period between Pentecost and Holocaust was just a transition phase between “this age” and “the age about to come.” It is “the age about to come” that was to be the eternal one. We have several examples of 40-year transitional periods in the OT (wilderness wandering, David’s reign, etc.). According to Moses and the prophets the transition between the two ages was not supposed to be eternal, nor even a long protracted period." (Stevens Responds to Gentry)
    
     

13. The Cross Incomplete for Salvation / Eternal Life - AD70 Mandatory
    
    William Bell - "Entrance into the Most Holy is a blessing of the "age to come." Entrance was opened up at the fall of the temple. Therefore, the blessings of the "age to come" were opened up or received at the fall of the temple, specifically ETERNAL LIFE! When exegetes quit dividing Matthew and begin "rightly dividing" the word on biblical eschatology, eternal life will be seen in Matthew where it is seen in Hebrews, in A.D.70, at the fall of the temple and Jewish commonwealth. In fact, this is where it will be seen throughout all the holy scriptures." (This Present Evil Age)
    
    "If that redemption were "completed" at the cross or on the day of Pentecost, then miraculous gifts were a useless commodity to the church as it relates to the same. Further proof that the redemption was not complete was the "futurity" of the inheritance which would be received at the second coming.. The completion of that redemption was clearly future at the time of the writing of Ephesians, about A.D. 58, though not removed from that first-century generation.. Therefore, the redemption of the purchased possession was completed in A.D. 70, at the fall of Jerusalem which corresponds in time to the end of the Jewish age and coming or parousia of Christ. This was the "day of redemption" and the termination of the "earnest" or miraculous gifts." (When Did Miracles Cease)  
    
    "When was that redemption completed? This is vital to an understanding of when those gifts would cease. Paul writes, "And grieve not the Holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption, (Eph. 4:30)." (When Did Miracles Cease)  
    
    Don Preston "The process (and ground) of taking away of sin undoubtedly began at the Cross, as Hebrews 9:26 affirms. It was not perfected and completed there, however." (eschatology.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=477&Itemid=61)
    
    "The New Day fully came in 70 AD when Jesus returned in judgment of the Old World of Darkness and brought the New Day of Salvation. The Day has come." (The Day Has Come)
    
     

14. Death Was Swallowed Up in AD70
    
    Virgil Vaduva - "That is why in 1 Corinthians 15, Paul can happily say "Where, O death is your victory?  Where, O death is your sting?"  He is not talking about physical death but spiritual death because he specifies sin and Jesus' victory over spiritual death in the very next verse: "The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law.  But thanks be to God!  He gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.  Jesus conquered death and reunited us with God." (Answer to Gromacki)
     

15. "The Law" and the "Power of Sin" Was Utterly Removed in AD70
    
    Don Preston - "I find it impossible to escape the conclusion that either the Great Trumpet of the Lord sounded in that first century generation or Jesus' promise failed and man still has no escape from sin, from separation from God. The Good News is, the Trumpet sounded and the final barriers between God and man were removed as God took away the last vestiges of "the law" which held the "power of sin." Man can now be fully justified and live in full assurance that "he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life" (John 5:24). Thank God for the sounding of the Great Trumpet!" (With The Sounding of the Trumpet)
    
    Kurt Simmons - The Attack on Full Preterism: Which Death Was Defeated in AD70? - "Covenant Eschatology: Inherently Universalistic" The evidence is in: full Preterism is not the culprit linking Preterism to Universalism. The real culprits are false notions regarding the source and nature of mankind’s condemnation and his corporate justification as articulated by some in the Preterist community. Reformed Preterists, like Frost, interpret the “death” cast into the lake of fire in Rev. 20:14 as imputed Adamic guilt. King, on the other hand, equates it with annulment of the Mosaic law. Because these are universal in terms of their asserted condemnation, their destruction works universal justification, apart from faith and obedience. As they unconditionally condemned, so their annulment unconditionally justifies. It is as if the whole race were arraigned before the court of heaven upon an indictment reciting these two laws. The annulment of those laws ipso facto destroys the indictment, as there is no longer any law to base an accusation upon. Hence, all men stand acquitted. In the words of Sam Frost: “There is no law taking into account our sins.”
     

16. The Creation Which Was Groaning Was Old Covenant Israel
    
    William Bell - "We submit then, that the "creation" of Romans 8:18-23, is a reference to O.T. saints who, under the law, were in the bondage of corruption of sin-death, yet waiting/groaning in pain to be delivered from that bondage when the firstfruits (N.T. saints) were manifested or received the adoption of sons. It is not necessary to exclude Gentiles from the "whole creation" of Romans 8. (See The Cross And The Parousia Of Christ, by Max R. King, pp. 525-526). The time of fulfillment is the completion of the work of the eschatological Spirit at the end of the Jewish age in A.D. 70.. Finally, the identity of the creation harmonizes with Old Covenant Israel as rational, intelligent mankind who were in need of deliverance - real deliverance from the bondage of real sin-death, and this through the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ." (The Illusion of the Conclusion)
     

17. Old Covenant Israel Was Delivered From the Bondage of Sin-Death in AD70
    
    William Bell - "Old Covenant Israel must be introduced into the equation as consideration of the creation in Romans 8. There was a real need to deliver them from the bondage of sin-death. Christ took on the nature of his brethren (Old Covenant Israel) that he might suffer sin-death with them in order to destroy the power of Satan and subsequently deliver his brethren from that bondage.. There was, therefore, a real need for Christ to deliver his brethren (O.T. Israel) from the power of sin death, a bondage to which they had become subject, "not willingly," i.e., not of their own choice but by God's placing them under the law which could not give the life (Gal.3:21), and the freedom from sin and death (Heb.10:4), which they desired. This could only be accomplished through Christ by means of his death and the outpouring of the eschatological Spirit during his age-ending reign, (1 Cor.15:24-26). .. There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, AND SHALL TURN AWAY UNGODLINESS FROM JACOB; FOR THIS IS MY COVENANT UNTO THEM WHEN I SHALL TAKE AWAY THEIR (O.T. ISRAEL'S) SINS," (Rom.11:26,27; 13:11,12)." (The Illusion of the Conclusion)
     

18. The New Heavens and Earth Entered the World in AD70
    
    David Curtis - "We dwell in the New Jerusalem in the very presence of God and the invitation is still going out today. Notice the invitation that goes forth from the New Heaven and Earth" (Gospel Preached to All the World?)
    
    Jessie Mills - "By destroying the Jewish State and sending the gospel of Christ throughout the Gentile world, He 'will reign for ever and ever'.  Time without end.  Yet some today are teaching that the end of the world is just ahead.   They say it will soon burn to ashes, thus destroying the kingdom where Christ was to reign 'for ever and ever'." (Revelation Survey, p. 157)
     

19. The Consummation of the Ages Was in AD70
    
    William Bell - "Jesus spoke of the consummation of an age concurrent with Jerusalem's fall in A.D.70.." (This Present Evil Age)
     

20. AD70 Was The Goal of the New Testament
    
    William Bell - "The goal of New Covenant saints was the revealing of sons which equals receiving the adoption of sons/redemption of the body. This is placed opposite to deliverance from the bondage/slavery of corruption, a state from which New covenant saints were already being delivered though it had not yet reached consummation as Paul argues. " (The Illusion of the Conclusion)
     

21.  The "Unity of the Faith" Came in AD70
    
    William Bell - "Fifth, Paul states that the gift of inspiration to apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors, and teachers would continue till "we all come to the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect (full-grown) man, (Eph. 4:11-14). It has been demonstrated that the full-grown man (perfect) state is equivalent in meaning and time to "when that which is perfect is come," and the "face to face" presence of Christ, (1 Cor. 13:8-12; Rev. 22:4). Things equal to the same thing are equal to one another. Therefore the "unity of the faith" equals to the "face to face" presence in the revelation of Jesus Christ at the end of the Jewish age. "  (When Did Miracles Cease)
     

22. Miracles Ceased in AD70
    
    William Bell - "Miracles were to last until the completion or end of the Jewish age.. Therefore, the scriptures limit the termination of miracles to the end of the Jewish age in 70 A.D.." (When Did Miracles Cease)
    
    "If that redemption were "completed" at the cross or on the day of Pentecost, then miraculous gifts were a useless commodity to the church as it relates to the same. Further proof that the redemption was not complete was the "futurity" of the inheritance which would be received at the second coming.. The completion of that redemption was clearly future at the time of the writing of Ephesians, about A.D. 58, though not removed from that first-century generation.. Therefore, the redemption of the purchased possession was completed in A.D. 70, at the fall of Jerusalem which corresponds in time to the end of the Jewish age and coming or parousia of Christ. This was the "day of redemption" and the termination of the "earnest" or miraculous gifts." (When Did Miracles Cease)  
    
    Michael Sartori - "Miracles were still in use to confirm Jesus' teaching and authority and the Old Covenant had not yet passed away (Hebrews 8:13). The church still needed pastors, elders, shepherds etc. to enable the transition to run smoothly. "  (Magi Forum -http://jaygary.com/starof2000/discus/messages/1/1.html)
     

23. Spiritual Gifts Ceased in AD70
    
    David Curtis "When that time arrived in AD 70, there was no longer a need for spiritual gifts." (The Permanence of Love)
    
     

24. The Work of the Holy Spirit Ceased in AD70
    
    William Bell - "When was that redemption completed? This is vital to an understanding of when those gifts would cease. Paul writes, "And grieve not the Holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption, (Eph. 4:30)." (When Did Miracles Cease)
    
    "Second, the bodies in this context were only those of Christians who were physically alive. Third, the indwelling of these bodies was by a "then present" (A.D.57) miraculous indwelling of the Spirit whose "completed" work was future but not removed from the age of the miraculous -- by His Spirit that indwells you." (Challenging Concept of the Resurrection)
     

25. Heaven Didn't Exist Until AD70
    
    Virgil Vaduva - "Since heaven would not exist until the return of Christ, all the dead in Christ would be required to go to Hades, not heaven." (Answer to Gromacki)
     

26. The Great Trumpet Sounded in AD70
    
    William Bell - " In addition, it is not without significance that this gathering of the saints in Matt.24:31, is preceded by the great sound or voice (marginal rendering) of a trumpet. Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob heard "this" trumpet..  Equally certain is the fact that Matthew 24 places the sounding of that trumpet at the fall of Jerusalem in A.D. 70, before that first-century generation passed, (Matt.24:31,34)." (The Dead Are Raised)
    
    Don Preston - "I find it impossible to escape the conclusion that either the Great Trumpet of the Lord sounded in that first century generation or Jesus' promise failed and man still has no escape from sin, from separation from God.. Thank God for the sounding of the Great Trumpet!" (With The Sounding of the Trumpet)
    
     

27. Universal Acknowledgement of Christ's Sovereignty Came in AD70
    
    William Bell - "In chapter 2, reference again to judgment, v.10.  The reference does not appear as clear, but when paralleled with Rom.14:10 and Rev.5:13, that judgment and universal acknowledgment of Christ's sovereignty was at hand (Rev.1:1-3).  They were again exhorted in view of the day (Parousia) of Christ, (Phil.2:16)." (Philippians 4:5 - Spatiology or Eschatology)
    
     

28. The Gathering From the Four Winds Was During the Fall of Jerusalem
    
    William Bell - " Jesus speaks of the gathering of the elect from the four winds during the fall of Jerusalem in 70 A.D.. In addition, it is not without significance that this gathering of the saints in Matt.24:31, is preceded by the great sound or voice (marginal rendering) of a trumpet. Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob heard "this" trumpet. It therefore signaled the universal gathering of saints from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven, (Mk.13:27; 2 Thess.2:1; Heb.10:25), as well as the raising of the patriarchs and prophets from the dead, (Rom.4:16; Heb.11:39-40).. Equally certain is the fact that Matthew 24 places the sounding of that trumpet at the fall of Jerusalem in A.D. 70, before that first-century generation passed, (Matt.24:31,34). " (The Dead Are Raised)
     

29. That Which is Perfect Came in AD70 at the Second Coming
    
    William Bell - "Therefore, seeing face to face which is equal to the coming of the perfect in the Corinthian text, is equal in time to "seeing His face" in the New Jerusalem at the second coming. It is the full open-faced, unmirorred revelation or unveiling of God's glory in Christ, a glory that was ready to be (about to be) revealed in the apostles' own generation.. Lastly, the end of the age, the revelation or day of Christ, the full-grown man, the coming of the perfect, seeing "face to face," the redemption of the purchased possession, receiving the inheritance, and the unity of the faith are all equivalents in time and meaning having occurred in 70 A.D. with the fall of Jerusalem" (When Did Miracles Cease)  
    
    David Curtis "That which is perfect refers to the maturity of the body at the rapture of the church, which happened at the second coming of Christ, bringing in the New Heavens and New Earth which closed the cannon. This all took place in AD 70, when the Lord returned, bringing in the New Heaven and Earth where we see Him face to face. So the coming again of our Lord for his people brought them to full maturity. " (The Permanence of Love)
     

30. Hades Was Destroyed in AD70
    
    William Bell - "Hades has been destroyed. " (The Dead Are Raised)
     

31. The World Entered the Eternal Age in AD70
    
    William Bell - "Many writers express this viewpoint largely because they see the "age to come" as heaven."
    
    Ed Stevens - "That 40-year period between Pentecost and Holocaust was just a transition phase between “this age” and “the age about to come.” It is “the age about to come” that was to be the eternal one. We have several examples of 40-year transitional periods in the OT (wilderness wandering, David’s reign, etc.). According to Moses and the prophets the transition between the two ages was not supposed to be eternal, nor even a long protracted period. Gentry has missed the significance of the transition period, and confused the passages about the transition period with those about the eternal kingdom." (Stevens Responds to Gentry)
    
    Don Preston - "This New World was consummated when God destroyed his old people, Isaiah 65:13ff, the Old Jerusalem; the Old Heavens and Earth of Judaism, Isaiah 51:15-16; bringing to a close the Old World (Age, Matthew 24:3) and bringing to glorious perfection, 1 Cor. 13:8, the New World. That time was when Jesus returned and destroyed the capital and hub of the Old World, Jerusalem, in A.D. 70." (More On No Death, No Sorrow, No Pain)
     

32. The "Kingdom Come" Part of the Lord's Prayer No Longer Proper
    
    William Bell - "For example, if one were to fail to consider the time statements and facts found in other passages, the kingdom could be taught as yet future. Jesus taught the disciples to pray, "Thy kingdom come" (Matt.6:10). At the time those words were spoken, the kingdom was clearly future and therefore the propriety of praying for its arrival. " (The Parousia and Acts 1:11)
     

33. The Great Commission Was Fulfilled in AD70
    
    Dan Harden - “The Great Commission was a special time of inspired Apostolic activity that will never be repeated”  
     

34. Faith, Hope and Desire Was Fulfilled in AD70
    
    David Curtis - “Our hope and desire has been realized in the second coming of Christ, the tabernacle of God is with men, He dwells with us. We live in the glories of the New Covenant age."   (Theme of Revelation)
     

What do YOU think ?

Submit Your Comments For Posting Here
..Will Be Spam Filtered and Posted Shortly..

Email PreteristArchive.com's Sole Developer and Curator, Todd Dennis  (todd @ preteristarchive.com) Opened in 1996 http://www.preteristarchive.com