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Response to Marc Gibson's "The AD 70 Doctrine Examined" | Preterism By Reilly | The 70 A.D. Doctrine Examined | Was A.D. 70 The End?
“Jesus didn’t die and was not perfected (in his corporate body) to represent and retrieve only half of the harvest.”
"However, if one already is free from the strength of sin (the law), and from the sting of death (sin), where is death’s power? For Paul, death is abolished when the state of sin and the law are abolished. The state of sin, the law, and consequently death are abolished when the old Covenant aeon is consummated, giving place to the New Covenant aeon
of life and righteousness.” Max R. King in "Romans 9-11 recognizes the process of the Northern Ten Tribes ("My people," Hosea 1:4) becoming dispersed among the Gentiles ("not My people," Hosea 1:4) only to be reconciled as the people of God (Hosea 1: 10-11; 2:23) through taking the gospel into all the world (to the Gentiles, Diaspora, etc.) before the end could come (Matthew 24:14).. Paul uses ‘Israel’ here the same way he uses it throughout chapters 9-11, as a reference to Jacob’s physical lineage." "We learn from Romans 9-11 and Paul’s ministry to the Gentiles that in every sense "salvation is of the Jews" (John 4:22). God designed things that way by calling Abraham, giving promises to him, and choosing Israel to carry the promises to consummation in and through Christ. It follows, therefore, that every facet of eschatology pertains to the Comprehensive Grace of God in fulfilling Israel’s comprehensive salvation. Therefore, all facets of this salvation are included in Israel’s "time of the end." The resurrection, which is the core of salvation, is no exception. Resurrection was promised to Israel (Isaiah 25:8; 26:19; Ezekiel 37:1-14; Hosea 13:14; Daniel 12), and it constituted "the hope of Israel" (Acts 26:6-9). This hope resided at the heart of the gospel preached to Israel (Acts 2:22-39; 4:1-2; 13:32-39; 23:6; 24:14-15). So, when Paul in Romans 11:12-15 points out to Gentiles that the "much more" of Israel’s "fullness" and "acceptance" would mean for them "life from the dead," he referred to the fulfillment of Israel’s promised resurrection. The Gentiles, thus, benefited from Israel’s resurrection just as they profited from every aspect of Israel’s hope, promise, and inheritance of salvation. It is from this perspective that we can read and understand Paul’s teaching on resurrection in his epistles. In his resurrection texts, he either corrected or gave further instruction to Gentiles relative to the fulfillment of Israel’s resurrection through Christ. He showed the relevance of this fulfillment to the Gentiles’ own soteriological fullness and perfection in Christ. They could not set aside Israel and claim any advantage or perfection in Christ independently of Christ’s making good God’s promises to the fathers of Israel (Romans 15:8-9)."
WHAT OTHERS HAVE SAID ON CG
Tim King
"Barry"
"Ed" I believe that his wrath was FINISHED in AD70. That which accused and condemned was destroyed, since the Law was fulfilled in Christ. If Christ propitiated God's wrath, then how could wrath continue? What did Christ do exactly? We preterists berate futurists for not believing in Christ's complete work, and yet, far too many preterists deny his completed work when it comes to God's wrath. Did Jesus come so that God's wrath could be greater and more terrifyingly vicious, or did he come to save the world? You tell me." Robert L. Statzer David Embury "How is it indeed that we of the
prêteristic persuasion chide futurists for not accepting shortly, soon
and at hand etc yet deny, struggle with or just blatantly dismiss "all", as in:
"The cross and the parousia of Christ are in biblical eschatology what alpha and omega are in the Greek alphabet -- the beginning and the end. Our primary aim in this volume, as indicated by the title, is to show that Christ's cross and parousia (i.e., His presence and arrival commonly called the second coming) are the two foci of one complete, indivisible eschaton (end time) that pertain to the fulfillment of all redemptive history and prophecy within the closing period ('the last days') of the Old Testament aeon (age)" (Max King, The Cross and the Parousia of Christ, p. ix). "It is the belief of the author that the spiritual method of interpretation is firmly established in the Bible, and that it is the basic and primary method of interpretation involved in end-time prophecy" (King, Ibid., p. 1-2) "It is these two worlds which constitute a major portion of Bible teaching, and occupy a prominent place in prophecy. Failure to see these two worlds as they unfold in the scripture, and to make proper distinction of them, is a major source of error in the interpretation and application of scripture" (King, The Spirit of Prophecy, p. 33). "Why have men concluded that the last days refer to the gospel dispensation? Since there is some basis for every interpretation of scripture, it is interesting to observe the reasoning behind this application. It is based upon another erroneous concept, namely that the Jewish age came to a close on Pentecost day. This is assumed on the basis that Pentecost was the beginning of the Christian age. The error is in failing to see the overlapping period of these two ages or dispensations. Ishmael and Isaac co-ercisted in Abraham's house for a time before Ishmael was cast out. The Jewish age did not end untfl their city, temple, and state fell under Roman invasion in A.D. 66-73" (King, Ibid., pp. 78-79). "The second stage of the resurrection takes place in conjunction with the Messianic reign of Christ, which we have placed in the period of time between His ascension and His parousia in the A.D. 70 consummation of the age. This means that Christ's reign was an age- ending reign, a transition to 'the age to come.'" "Christ's pre- parousia reign had a two-fold objective that was interrelated, and therefore accomplished concurrently He reigned to consummate the old aeon, which in turn was bound up with the coming in of the new aeon." "The concept of consummation at the cross rather than by means of the cross has led to a distortion of the real meaning and time frame of Christ's pre-parousia reign, and consequently the whole biblical scheme of Messianic eschatology in the establishment of the kingdom of God had been thrown into total disarray" (King, The Cross and Parousia of Christ. pp. 415, 417, 418). "This means that during the eschaton the believers lived in a tension of experienced and anticipated eschatology; between 'the already' and 'the not yet.' They were already in the kingdom of Christ (Col. 1:13), but still waiting for the coming of the kingdom of God (1 Cor. 15:24-28). But this waiting was not passive, as seen in Heb, 12:28 where the 'receiving of the kingdom' is presented as a present, active experience, as was also the case in their experiencing the powers of the age to come (6:5)" (King, Ibid., p. 32). "When the temple is destroyed, the world ends. The ending of the world is the coming of Christ. The coming of Christ is the fall of Jerusalem, or the destruction of the temple, etc....ALL would come to pass before that generation passed into history, and that included the coming of Christ, as well as the passing of heaven and earth" (King, The Spirit of Prophecy, p. 39). "There is no scriptural basis for extending the second coming of Christ beyond the fall of Judaism" (Ibid., p. 105). "...the end of the Jewish world was the second coming of Christ" (p. 81). "Prophecy found its complete fulfrllment in the second coming of Christ, and now may be regarded as closed and consummated" (p. 65). "Applying the last days to the Christian age is a misapplication fostered by a misconception of such terms as 'this world' and the 'world to come.' While Pentecost, in a sense, was the beginning of the Christion Esic] dispensation, yet the New Testament writers often spoke of it asa world or age to come, because the Jewish age had not ended at the time of their writings. (The right of primogeniture belonged to until he was cast out.) Therefore, statements such as 'this world' are interpreted as meaning this present material world rather that [sie] the Jewish age, and the 'world to come' is interpreted as meaning what follows the end of this present material world rather than the new heaven and earth, or Christian age that followed the end of the Jewish age" (King, The Spirit of Prophecy, p. 79). (On AD70 Limitation of Era of Fulfillment) "The "harvest" stage of the resurrection encompasses the Old Testament saints for whom Christ died (Hebrews 9:15), thus not limiting "all Israel" in 11:26 to Jews living at the time of Christ’s Second Appearing. His end-of-the-age coming would gather together "His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other" (Matthew 24:31). Both the living (the firstfruits) and the dead (the harvest) were to be caught up and united in him for eternity in Israel’s promised "new heavens and earth" (Isaiah 65:17f, Revelation 21)." (All Israel Will Be Saved) (On Who Comprises the "All Israel" in 11:26) There has been much discussion about the meaning of "all Israel" in this verse. But the context shows that Paul uses ‘Israel’ here the same way he uses it throughout chapters 9-11, as a reference to Jacob’s physical lineage. Changing here to a ‘spiritual’ usage to include Gentile believers (as some hold) would counter the point Paul makes. Paul was not replacing Israel with the church. He was not attempting to prove the supposed ‘spiritual identities’ of Jew and Gentile in 11:26. Instead, he was establishing for his Gentile audience that God had not cast away Israel and that "all Israel" will be saved. Our task, then, is to see the connection between the coming in of the fullness of the Gentiles and the salvation of not just part of Israel, but of "all Israel.”" (All Israel Will Be Saved)
(On
1 John 2:17) “The fact that Paul is dealing with the 70 AD consummation of the Jewish age is brought out clearly by the manner in which he expresses death’s ultimate defeat (1 Corinthians 15:55-57). “The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law” (verse 56) Paul is conscious that death’s defeat hinges upon sin’s defeat, and that the defeat of sin is tied to the annulment of the old aeon of law, which is sin’s strength. Many interpreters are puzzled by the presence of “the law” in a passage where the law would seen to have no relevancy if it were removed at the cross. Nevertheless, the law is in verse 56, and Paul sees its annulment in connection with the consummation of the age very much a part of the defeat of sin and death. "If sin, death and the law are, in Paul’s treatment of salvation-history, interlocking realities, how can these powers be defeated in Christ’s death and still remain to be defeated in the 70 AD consummation of the age?
"However, if one already is free from the strength of sin (the law), and from the sting of death (sin), where is death’s power? For Paul, death is abolished when the state of sin and the law are abolished. The state of sin, the law, and consequently death are abolished when the old Covenant aeon is consummated, giving place to the New Covenant aeon of life and righteousness.” (The Cross and Parousia of Christ,
644-645) (On
The Second Coming) "...the end of the Jewish world was the second coming of Christ." - (ibid., 81) "Prophecy found its complete fulfillment in the second coming of Christ, and now may be regarded as closed and consummated." - (ibid., 65) (On
Acts 1:11) (On Galatians 4:21-31) (On I Corinthians 15:35-44)
"The eternal kingdom was possessed (Heb. 12:28) and the new heaven and earth inherited (Mart. 5:5; Rev. 21:1,7)" (Max King, The Spirit of Prophecy, p. 239). (On
II Peter 3:8) (On
The Significance of A.D.70) (On
The "Millennial Reign of Christ") (On the Two Ages) "The cross and the parousia of Christ are in biblical eschatology what alpha and omega are in the Greek alphabet -- the beginning and the end. Our primary aim in this volume, as indicated by the title, is to show that Christ's cross and parousia (i.e., His presence and arrival commonly called the second coming) are the two foci of one complete, indivisible eschaton (end time) that pertain to the fulfillment of all redemptive history and prophecy within the closing period ('the last days') of the Old Testament aeon (age)" (Max King, The Cross and the Parousia of Christ, p. ix). (On the Last Days) "Applying the last days to the Christian age is a misapplication fostered by a misconception of such terms as 'this world' and the 'world to come.' While Pentecost, in a sense, was the beginning of the Christion Esic] dispensation, yet the New Testament writers often spoke of it asa world or age to come, because the Jewish age had not ended at the time of their writings. (The right of primogeniture belonged to until he was cast out.) Therefore, statements such as 'this world' are interpreted as meaning this present material world rather that [sie] the Jewish age, and the 'world to come' is interpreted as meaning what follows the end of this present material world rather than the new heaven and earth, or Christian age that followed the end of the Jewish age" (King, The Spirit of Prophecy, p. 79). "The harmony and unity of all prophecy and scripture bearing on the subject, can be maintained only in the concept of a spiritual kingdom's being established or perfected at the end of Judaism [A,D. 70, MWG]" (King, Ibid., p. 154). 2) "The second stage of the resurrection takes place in conjunction with the Messianic reign of Christ, which we have placed in the period of time between His ascension and His parousia in the A.D. 70 consummation of the age. This means that Christ's reign was an age- ending reign, a transition to 'the age to come.'" "Christ's pre- parousia reign had a two-fold objective that was interrelated, and therefore accomplished concurrently He reigned to consummate the old aeon, which in turn was bound up with the coming in of the new aeon." "The concept of consummation at the cross rather than by means of the cross has led to a distortion of the real meaning and time frame of Christ's pre-parousia reign, and consequently the whole biblical scheme of Messianic eschatology in the establishment of the kingdom of God had been thrown into total disarray" (King, The Cross and Parousia of Christ. pp. 415, 417, 418). "This means that during the eschaton the believers lived in a tension of experienced and anticipated eschatology; between 'the already' and 'the not yet.' They were already in the kingdom of Christ (Col. 1:13), but still waiting for the coming of the kingdom of God (1 Cor. 15:24-28). But this waiting was not passive, as seen in Heb, 12:28 where the 'receiving of the kingdom' is presented as a present, active experience, as was also the case in their experiencing the powers of the age to come (6:5)" (King, Ibid., p. 32). "When the temple is destroyed, the world ends. The ending of the world is the coming of Christ. The coming of Christ is the fall of Jerusalem, or the destruction of the temple, etc....ALL would come to pass before that generation passed into history, and that included the coming of Christ, as well as the passing of heaven and earth" (King, The Spirit of Prophecy, p. 39). "There is no scriptural basis for extending the second coming of Christ beyond the fall of Judaism" (Ibid., p. 105). "...the end of the Jewish world was the second coming of Christ" (p. 81). "Prophecy found its complete fulfrllment in the second coming of Christ, and now may be regarded as closed and consummated" (p. 65).
"While King's work has a great deal of value for the discerning student, its ultimate thesis -- that there is no future Coming of Christ or Final Judgment -- is heretical." (The Days of Vengeance, p. 264) Marc Gibson
Wayne Jackson Bill Reeves Keith Mathison (2003) BIOGRAPHICAL SKETCH "For nearly twenty centuries the Bible has been a fulfilled book, and redemption a finished work. We, more than any generation since the apostles, have the insight and the resources to understand its full message. "Hal Lindsey had released The Late Great Planet Earth, an end-time book predicting – and sensationalizing – the arrival of the second coming, the tribulation and the supposed end of planet earth. It would become the best-selling book of the 1970s. In contrast to Lindsey’s phenomenal success, The Spirit of Prophecy received little attention outside of Max’s immediate church tradition. Those who did take notice condemned it, much like the church had once done to Galileo for observing that the earth revolved around the sun." "It is easy now, with thirty years’ worth of hindsight, to see Max’s book as the seminal work of the modern fulfilled prophecy movement. Check the copyright dates of any fulfilled prophecy author from last century – none are earlier than 1971. Not only that, but they will readily admit that the writings of Max (or someone who studied him) had a profound impact on their present-day view of prophecy. No one, certainly not Max King, thought this work could possibly play the role it is playing in shaping how we think of fulfilled prophecy in the third millennium." "Largely self-taught but a diligent student of the Bible, Max began preaching at the age of 21. In 1962, after a decade of pulpit ministry, Max answered a call to move to Warren, Ohio. In addition to preaching on Sundays, he logged hours in his study tackling the Bible’s unsolved ‘Rubik’s Cube’ of eschatology." "Anytime a new paradigm
is proposed its detractors brand it heresy. This was true in the 16th
century when Nicholas Copernicus first proposed a heliocentric solar
system. It took more than 165 years, Galileo’s telescope, and Newton’s
theory of gravity to complete what we now know as the Scientific
Revolution. In the process, unfortunately, the Catholic church channeled
its energy to suppress and condemn the new scientific paradigm. This
fateful decision put the church on the wrong side of scientific inquiry
for almost four centuries. In 1992, Pope John Paul II formally declared
the Catholic church in error when it condemned Galileo." (The
TM View) Send an email with your comments to todd @ preteristarchive.com Be sure to include the article name. They will be posted shortly upon receipt
CommentsI agree with what you have said here. Bob hookedonchrist@hotmail.com send me any news letter you may write.
Commentshi my name is max king to and i am 14 years old
CommentsI actually think that this stuff makes sence. I think that Max King is brilliant. In my opinion he is the leading thinker on end time studies. Jimmy Allen
CommentsMax was certainly a pioneer, but many of his thoughts were not expressed clearly. I think Don Preston is the foremost authority on preterist interpretation! Date: 24 Apr 2005 Time: 14:48:31 Comments: I have read Max's book "Cross and the Parousra" very closly and studied his insights against the scriptures that he referenced. It took a great deal of time to do it properly and I have to say that it has vastly changed my conseption of what I had been taught. I believe our culture shapes us into a mind set that can prevent one from seeing what is clearly written in the bible. After all, if the Jews did not accept Christ standing in thier mist, why would not we miss is appearing? Date: 20 Mar 2006 Date: 16 Oct 2006 Date: 08 Nov 2006
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Opened in 1996 |
Warning: "Full
Preterist" material is being archived for balanced representation of all
Christian Preterist views, but its premise is deemed by the opinion of
the curator (a
former full preterist) to be "toxic theology." Due to its
brash and "letter-based" appeal to the flesh and "things seen," it very
subtly draws people away from the truth of the Spirit and His "unseen things"
(core components of the system being extra-biblical history and logic -- because there is
not one full preterist verse which looks back to
fulfillment in ad70,
it is based entirely upon deductive reasoning). If you have already
adopted this viewpoint, please seriously consider that according to full
preterism, AD70 was not only the end of Old Testament Judaism, but it was also
the end of the revelation of Christianity as seen in the New Testament.
This is done by teaching that AD70 was a "dispensational line"
regarding resurrection and the like which makes the Christianity of the New Testament
fundamentally different from that of today. Please also note that the earliest
known adherents of full preterism later abandoned it, as have many contemporary
former full preterists, including the curator of this archive (after a
decade of promotion). The article
which follows is deemed "hyper preterist" in nature
-- so please proceed with extreme caution. If this article is not "full
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