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Todd Dennis - Matthew 16:27-28 is NOT a "Preterist Time Indicator" pointing to AD70

Warning: "Full Preterist" material is being archived for balanced representation of all Christian Preterist views, but its premise is deemed by the opinion of the curator (a former full preterist) to be "toxic theology."   Due to its brash and "letter-based" appeal  to the flesh and "things seen," it very subtly draws people away from the truth of the Spirit and His "unseen things" (core components of the system being extra-biblical history and logic -- because there is not one full preterist verse which looks back to fulfillment in ad70, it is based entirely upon deductive reasoning).  If you have already adopted this viewpoint, please seriously consider that according to full preterism, AD70 was not only the end of Old Testament Judaism, but it was also the end of the revelation of Christianity as seen in the New Testament.  This is done by teaching that AD70 was a "dispensational line" regarding resurrection and the like which makes the Christianity of the New Testament fundamentally different from that of today.  Please also note that the earliest known adherents of full preterism later abandoned it, as have many contemporary former full preterists, including the curator of this archive (after a decade of promotion).  The article which follows is deemed "hyper preterist" in nature -- so please proceed with extreme caution.  If this article is not "full preterist," please notify me and I will have it reclassified.


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EARLY CHURCH

Andreas
Arethas Caesarea
Aphrahat
St. Athanasius
Augustine
Barnabus
Pseudo-Baruch
Venerable Bede
Chrysostom
Pseudo-Chrysostom
Clement Alexandria
Clement of Rome
Pseudo-Clementines
Cyprian
Ephraem
Epiphanes
Eusebius
Gregory
Hegesippus
Hippolytus
Ignatius
Irenaeus
James
Jerome
King Jesus
Apostle John
Lactantius
Luke
Mark
Justin Martyr
Mathetes
Matthew
Melito of Sardis
Oecumenius
Origen
Apostle Paul
Apostle Peter
"Solomon"
Sulpicius Severus
Tertullian
Victorinus

HISTORICAL PRETERISM
(Minor Fulfillment of Matt. 24/25 or Revelation in Past)

Joseph Addison
Oswald T. Allis
Karl Auberlen
Thomas Aquinas
Augustine
Albert Barnes
Karl Barth
G.K. Beale
Beasley-Murray
John Bengel
John A. Broadus

David Brown
"Haddington Brown"
F.F. Bruce

John Calvin
B.H. Carroll
Vern Crisler
Philip Doddridge
Isaak Dorner
Dutch Annotators
Alfred Edersheim
Jonathan Edwards

Patrick Fairbairn
James Farquharson
A.R. Fausset
Robert Fleming
Geneva Bible
John Gill
W.B. Godbey
Ezra Gould
Steve Gregg
Hank Hanegraaff
Hengstenberg
Matthew Henry
G.A. Henty
George Holford
William Hurte
J, F, and Brown
B.W. Johnson
Dr. Jortin
Benjamin Keach
K.F. Keil
Henry Kett
Johann Lange

Nathaniel Lardner
Jean Le Clerc
Peter Leithart
Jack P. Lewis
Abiel Livermore
John Locke
Martin Luther

Dave MacPherson
James MacDonald
James MacKnight
Philip Mauro
Thomas Manton
Heinrich Meyer
J.D. Michaelis
Johann Neander
Sir Isaac Newton
Thomas Newton
Stafford North
Dr. John Owen
 Blaise Pascal
William W. Patton
Arthur Pink

Maurus Rabanus
St. Remigius

Anne Rice
J.C. Robertson
Edward Robinson
Andrew Sandlin
Johann Schabalie
Philip Schaff
Thomas Scott
C.J. Seraiah
Daniel Smith
C.H. Spurgeon

Rudolph E. Stier
A.H. Strong
St. Symeon
Theophylact
Friedrich Tholuck
James Ussher
Wm Warburton
Benjamin Warfield

Noah Webster
John Wesley
B.F. Westcott
Weymouth
William Whiston
N.T. Wright

John Wycliffe

MODERN PRETERISTS
(Major Fulfillment of Matt. 24/25 or Revelation in Past)

Firmin Abauzit
Jay Adams
Luis Alcazar
Beausobre, L'Enfant
John L. Bray
David Brewster
Alexander Brown
Dr. John Brown
Newcombe Cappe
Adam Clarke

Henry Cowles
Ephraim Currier
Gary DeMar
P.S. Desprez
Johann Eichorn
F.W. Farrar
Kenneth Gentry
Hugo Grotius
Henry Hammond
Hampden-Cook
J.G. Herder
Timothy Kenrick
J. Marcellus Kik
Samuel Lee
Peter Leithart
John Lightfoot
F.D. Maurice
Marion Morris
Ovid Need, Jr
Wm. Newcombe
N.A. Nisbett
Gary North
J.H. Noyes
Randall Otto
Zachary Pearce
Bileby Porteus
Ernst Renan
R.C. Sproul
Moses Stuart
Milton S. Terry
Robert Townley
William Urmy
Cornelius Vanderwaal
Foy Wallace
Israel P. Warren
Chas Wellbeloved
J.J. Wetstein
Daniel Whitby

FUTURISTS
(Virtually No Fulfillment of Matt. 24/25 & Revelation in 1st C. - Types Only ; Also Included are "Higher Critics" Not Associated With Any Particular Eschatology)

Henry Alford
G.C. Berkower
Alan Patrick Boyd
John Bradford
Wm. Burkitt
George Caird
Conybeare/ Howson
John N. Darby
C.H. Dodd
E.B. Elliott
Jerry Falwell
J.P. Green Sr.
Murray Harris
Thomas Ice

Benjamin Jowett
John N.D. Kelly

Hal Lindsey
John MacArthur
Robert Mounce

Eduard Reuss

J.A.T. Robinson
D.S. Russell
George Sandison
C.I. Scofield
Dr. John Smith

Norman Snaith
"Televangelists"
Thomas Torrance
Jack/Rex VanImpe
John Walvoord

Quakers : George Fox | Margaret Fell (Fox) | Isaac Penington


PRETERIST UNIVERSALISM | PRETERIST-IDEALISM

Samuel Frost

Full Preterist: "On the face of it, it would seem ludicrous that anyone would try to defend from the Scriptures and the history of the Church that Christ Jesus' Second Coming, the great judgment and the resurrection of the dead occurred in A.D.70" (Misplaced Hope, p. 13) | "the Sin has been removed from the from the cosmos along with the Death. This is not just true for believers in Christ, but true for all men, everywhere."

"Preterism is an interpretive system that is locked on the events of 66-70 A.D."

(On Destruction of Death in AD70)
"The end of the age meant the end of the reign of the Death and the Sin and life in the fullness of Son eternally. This last statement is a virtual powder keg for preterism in terms of its implications. "

"This was a reorganization of the cosmos. The whole world was changed. What once reigned over all the world (the Sin and the Death of Adam) was now replaced with a new reign, a new kingdom: the Grace and Righteousness. As preterists we must assert that our present day existence in the world is not one which is ruled by the Death and the Sin. Rather, our own time since the time of Christ's  parousia, is ruled by the Grace and Righteousness."

Now, this raises a question concerning Man, all men, in the age to come. Let me assert quite plainly: all men are under the rule of the Grace and Righteousness. No man is under the rule of the Death and the Sin.  How can anyone who is a preterist claim that any man is under the reign of "the Death" when clearly "the Death" has been defeated and "swallowed up in victory" as Rev 20.14,15 clearly illustrates? And, if "the Death" has been defeated entirely for all men, then "the Sin" that reigned "in the Death" has equally been hurled into the "lake of fire." In other words, the Sin has been removed from the from the cosmos along with the Death. This is not just true for believers in Christ, but true for all men, everywhere."
 (Observations)

(On the focal point of Preterism)
"Preterism is an interpretive system that is locked on the events of 66-70 A.D. It views this as the decisive eschatological event. The Second Coming, Resurrection of the Dead and Great Judgment are seen as having taken place in and around these years. This is a contradiction to Christian orthodoxy and its Creeds, Councils and all the Reformed, Baptist, and Methodist Standards (and we wonder why why preterists are called "heretics"!)." (Observations)

(On the Preterist Rapture)
"There is an increasingly surfacing division current within preterist studies between the “heaven now” denomination and the “heaven when you die” one.  Such is to be expected.  Ian D. Harding has recently penned Taken to Heaven in A.D. 70 (335 pp.), published by Ed Stevens’ publication arm, International Preterist Association, Inc.  The book is endorsed by Arthur Melanson and Walt Hibbard on the back cover.  It is important to the preterist movement because it is the first major work noting the differences within the preterist camps. 

[A]s Harding himself states, the book is directly written to those preterists who hold to what has been called the “heaven now” view (Harding, xiv).  This view, in his words, if true “takes away all meaning of language” (107).  It is to be admitted that the view expounded upon by Max King in Cross and Parousia of Christ and the view represented here are two completely different approaches within preterism.  They both operate from the same framework, of course, but the agreement ends there and this book makes it clearer than any other I have read.

The book does not pretend to be a “scholarly” piece.  The author never quotes authors like King and others that espouse the opposing view.  He simply interacts with the other view by stating something like, “[s]ome preterists say that the glorification promises were fulfilled at the Parousia in the living pre-Parousia Christians while they remained on earth” (107).  That would be the view of Max King, more or less, and those who align themselves with his approach more or less.  There is not much discussion about the meaning of “body” from its corporate aspect.  Indeed, much of what Harding does is simply assume that “glorification”, “made alive” and “catch away” are robbed of meaning if not taken literally.  Whether or not he proves this is another thing. " (
An Analysis and Critique of Taken to Heaven in A.D. 70:  Blessings Expected at the Parousia)

(On The Second Coming)
"The formula for prophecy in the OT is that Event A is announced, then, when it occurs, the saying, "then you shall know that I am the Lord" applies.  One cannot argue in silence that many Jews holed up within the walls of Jerusalem did not repent at the last minute with the realization of their crime against Christ.  History, from three accounts, reports of prodigies and signs in the skies.  Eusebius repeats those reports as well.  The only thing the early church failed in doing was not tying the Second Coming doctrine to those events (which many mention - Barnabas, Justin, Irenaeus, Clement, etc.).  This single event, according to Chrysostom and Athanasius, signaled the spiritual and covenantal transfer from old to new.  All that modern Preterists do is simply apply this transference to eschatological categories.  We just simply take a step further, logically, than did our blessed predecessors." (
Why I am not a Preterist)

(On Origen)
"On the whole, he correctly sets forth their eschatological viewpoints. At times he may read too much into a portion of their works, but that is rare. Yet, after this useful scholarly work which he has done, at the end he sides with Origen…in his fanciful interpretation of I Corinthians 15:35,38” (p.6, Preterism). Actually, I do not side with Origen at all on those passages. I merely state that Origen did not have the flesh-body recomposed at the Second Coming but rather a “germ” of that body is used to build a “spiritual body”. I do not hold to that idea. I stated it only because I wished to show that a flesh-body resurrection was not the only view of the resurrection by the end of the second century. Be that as it may, Adams does quote me fairly." ("Millennial Post" - 12/03)

(On Max King)
"
Ironically, it was in this academic cradle of Eschatology that the search for the Historical Jesus was born. There was a problem, and no doubt 70 C.E. figured into the solution somewhere, but 70 C.E. was hardly the 'end of the world' and we are hardly in the "new heavens and the new earth." No one could say that the "resurrection of the dead" took place then. Well, someone did say it. His name was Max King.

In surveying the history of Covenant Eschatology, I cannot find in print, prior to King, a view that constructed the model he put forth." (A Brief History of Covenant Eschatology)


WHAT OTHERS HAVE SAID

Jay Adams
"Frost goes on to write, "If the Second Coming really did occur in A.D.70, does this damage the integrity of the church, he history and her claim to know the truth?"  The (Orthodox Preterist) answer?  Absolutely.   The vast majority of biblical exegetes have clearly taught the doctrines that (Unorthodox Preterists) reject.  If UPs are correct, it would mean that the Bible-believing church would have been deluded or deceived for most of its history, and Christians would have truly entertained a "misplaced hope." (Preterism: Orthodox or Unorthodox, pp. 2,3)

"Frost's analysis of the church fathers' beliefs is helpful.  On the whole, he correctly sets forth their eschatological viewpoints.   At times he may read too much into a portion of their works, but that is rare.  Yet, after this useful scholarly work which he has done, at the end he sides with Origen (who was noted for his extravagant allegorizing) in his fanciful interpretation of 1 Corthinians 15:35,38.. After saying that Origen's interpretation of the passage was "correct," he comments, "Paul mentions two bodies here, one sown, and another given, Adam's body and Christ's body.  The 'body' then that all Christians are raised in is Christ's."  Of course, in I Corinthians Paul is speaking of physical bodily death and resurrection.  He is not speaking of the church, the body of Christ.  That Frost finds his interpretation questionable and out of line with Paul's thought may be indicated by his including the word body in quotation marks.  If he does not feel uncomfortable in agreeing with Origen about this matter, he ought to.  To deny the bodily resurrection from the grave, it seems that he found it necessary to grasp at this fanciful interpretation as an expedient." (ibid., pp. 6,7)

Ed Stevens
"I was also reading Sam Frost's new book, Misplaced Hope, which is an excellent rebuttal against Jonathin Seraiah's critique of Preterism.  His book reminded me again of the extreme lack of writings by Christian leaders immediately after AD 70.  Indeed, Sam did a marvelous job of further minimizing the number of post-70 documents even more by suggesting that Barnabas and Clement may have been written before AD 70.  This makes the number of post-70 "Apostolic Father" writings even fewer.  It was not the purpose of Frost to solve the mystery of the post-70 silence, but rather simply to assume it as fact throughout his book.  And it is this silence, which all church historians acknowledge, that pushes me toward the rapture view."
(Silence Demands a Rapture)


BIOGRAPHICAL SKETCH

Samuel is a writer and speaker on the early church and its transforming hope. With a Bachelor of Theology from Liberty Christian College in Pensacola, FL. Samuel has completed his Master of Arts in Christian Studies and a Master of Arts in Religion from Whitefield Theological Seminary (with combined credits from Reformed Theological Seminary/Orlando and Cleveland Church of God School of Theology/Ohio). Currently Samuel is working on his Ph.D. in Biblical Languages from Whitefield Seminary, and is a member of the Evangelical Theological Society and Society of Biblical Literature. Samuel is the author of Misplaced Hope and Exegetical Essays on the Resurrection of the Dead. He is President of Reign of Christ Ministries. Samuel, his wife Anne Marie and children Janet, Jacob, Hunter, and Olivia live in Brandon, FL.

 


What do YOU think ?

Send an email with your comments to todd @ preteristarchive.com
Be sure to include the article name. 
They will be posted shortly upon receipt
 


Date: 23 Dec 2006
Time: 19:05:40

Comments:

this is so simple...
there.is.a.new.heaven.
Christ.and.the.risen.believers.are.there.
There.is.a.new.earth.
the.new.covenant.faithful.have.overcome.the.old.way.apostacies.
we.are.spiritual.citizens.of.Heaven.
living.in.the..earthly.kingdom.now.
The.kingdom.of.God.and.Heaven.are.two.different
things!!!

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