BOOKS: BIBLICAL STUDIES (1500BC-AD70) / EARLY CHRISTIAN PRETERISM (AD50-1000) / FREE ONLINE BOOKS (AD1000-2008)
AD70 Dispensationalism: According to
that view, AD70 was the end of 'this age' and the start of the 'age to come'.
Those who lived before AD70 could only 'see in part' and such, lacking
the resurrection and redemptive blessings which supposedly came only
Herod's Temple in Jerusalem
fell. Accordingly, AD70 was not only the end of Old
Testament Judaism, but it was also the end of the revelation of
Christianity as seen in the New Testament.
AD70 Dispensationalism: According to that view, AD70 was the end of 'this age' and the start of the 'age to come'. Those who lived before AD70 could only 'see in part' and such, lacking the resurrection and redemptive blessings which supposedly came only when Herod's Temple in Jerusalem fell. Accordingly, AD70 was not only the end of Old Testament Judaism, but it was also the end of the revelation of Christianity as seen in the New Testament.
material is being archived for balanced representation of all preterist views,
but is classified under the theological term hyper (as in beyond
the acceptable range of tolerable doctrines) at this website. The
classification of all full preterism as Hyper Preterism (HyP) is built
upon well over a decade of intense research at PreteristArchive.com, and
the convictions of
the website curator (a
former full preterist pastor). The HyP
theology of final resurrection and consummation in the fall of Jerusalem, with its dispensational line in AD70
(end of old age, start of new age), has never been known among authors
through nearly 20 centuries of Christianity leading up
to 1845, when the earliest known full preterist book was written.
Even though there may be many secondary points of agreement between
Historical/Modern Preterism and Hyper Preterism, their premises are undeniably and
THE FOLLOWING MATERIAL HAS BEEN CLASSIFIED AS "HYPER PRETERIST"
"Full preterist" material is being archived for balanced representation of all preterist views, but is classified under the theological term hyper (as in beyond the acceptable range of tolerable doctrines) at this website. The classification of all full preterism as Hyper Preterism (HyP) is built upon well over a decade of intense research at PreteristArchive.com, and the convictions of the website curator (a former full preterist pastor). The HyP theology of final resurrection and consummation in the fall of Jerusalem, with its dispensational line in AD70 (end of old age, start of new age), has never been known among authors through nearly 20 centuries of Christianity leading up to 1845, when the earliest known full preterist book was written. Even though there may be many secondary points of agreement between Historical/Modern Preterism and Hyper Preterism, their premises are undeniably and fundamentally different.
WARNING: THE FOLLOWING MATERIAL HAS BEEN CLASSIFIED AS "HYPER PRETERIST"
SOME DISTINCTIVE DOCTRINES OF SYSTEMATIZED HYPER PRETERISM
It is important to keep in mind that many ideas and doctrines full preterism appeals to - such as the complete end of the Old Covenant world in AD70 - are by no means distinctive to that view. Many non HyPs believe this as well, so one need not embrace the Hyper Preterist system in order to endorse this view. Following are exceptional doctrines which, so far as I've seen, are only taught by adherents of Hyper Preterism.:
DISTINCTIVE DOCTRINES TAUGHT BY STANDARD FULL PRETERISM
DISTINCTIVE DOCTRINES TAUGHT BY VARIOUS FORMS
What do Preterists Believe About the Lord's Supper?
By David Green
“Continuation Preterism” vs. "Cessationist
"the New Testament Church entered the spiritual Promised Land in A.D. 70"
[Note: not all views stated are Green's
; however, all views stated are Hyper Preterism]
QUESTION 75: What do preterists believe about the Lord's Supper? Do they still practice it today, or do they think it was abolished in A.D. 70?
ANSWER: Preterists are divided on this issue, although it seems that most preterists today hold to the continuation of the Lord's Supper. Below are the seven primary “Continuation-Versus-Cessation” arguments that are being discussed among preterists. (The first four are Cessation arguments with Continuation responses, and the last three are Continuation arguments with Cessation responses.)
1. “Until He Comes”
“For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the Lord's death until He comes.” (I Cor. 11:26)
The Lord came in A.D. 70. This means the Church is not commanded to proclaim the Lord's death by means of “the Lord's Supper” after A.D. 70.
Continuation response: The word “until” does not necessarily imply a termination. For example, Christ was to reign “until” He put all His enemies under His feet. (I Cor. 15:25; cf. I Tim. 4:13) “Until” cannot mean a termination in that verse because Christ reigns forever. (Dan. 7:14; Lk. 1:33; Heb. 1:8) “Until” in I Cor. 11:26 implies a culmination and establishment, not a termination.
2. “Until it is fulfilled in the Kingdom of God”
“For I say to you, I shall never again eat it until it is fulfilled in the kingdom of God.” (Lk. 22:16) The Lord's Supper was an
unfulfilled ritual and sign. It foreshadowed “Christ in you.” Therefore it was “fulfilled”
when Christ made His Dwelling in the Church in A.D. 70. (Jn. 14:23; Gal. 4:19; Eph. 2:21-22; 3:17; Col. 1:27; II Peter 1:19; Rev. 3:20; 21:2-3) Now we dine with Him in the Kingdom, and no longer through a symbolic, fleshly ordinance.
Continuation response: “Fulfilled” does not necessarily imply a change from material to non-material.
The truth that the Lord's Supper represents was brought to fullness in Christ in A.D. 70, but that does not mean that the Lord's Supper itself was to cease. Christ partakes of the Lord's Supper with us now in the Spirit as we partake of it physically on Earth.
3. “Until that Day when I drink it new with you in My Father's Kingdom”
Cessation argument: “But I say unto you, I will not drink henceforth of this fruit of the vine, until that Day when I drink it new with you in my Father's kingdom.” (Matt. 26:29; Mk. 14:25; Lk. 22:16-18) We dine with Christ in a “new” way today, that is, in the New Covenant way. He partakes of the "new wine" of the Kingdom (“the Vine”) with us, not in the old covenant way, as He did in the "transition era"; not through a symbolic, fleshly ordinance, but in a non-ceremonial, spiritual way. The Last Days symbol of "Christ in you" ("the Lord's Supper") was made "new" (Rev. 21:5) by the A.D.-70 fulfillment of "Christ in you."
The Manna that the Israelites ate and the drink that they drank in the wilderness represented the Lord's body and blood. (Jn. 6:31-56; I Cor. 10:3-4) The Lord's Supper also represented the Lord's body and blood. When the Israelites entered the Promised Land, the representative food and the representative drink ceased. Likewise, when the New Testament Church entered the spiritual Promised Land in A.D. 70, the representative food and drink ("the Lord's Supper") ceased.
Continuation response: The manna and the Lord's Supper are not likened to each other in Scripture. They are contrasted. In Jn. 6:31-56, the manna is contrasted with the Lord's Supper, i.e., with Christ's “flesh and blood.” The manna was temporary. The Lord's Supper (His “flesh and blood”) is an eternal New Covenant ordinance. Likewise in I Cor. 10:3-4, the manna and the water in the wilderness were temporary, but the Lord's Supper (of which Paul speaks in the same chapter) is eternal.
Continuation argument: The Israelites took the Passover while they awaited their redemption in Egypt. Then after they entered the Promised Land, they continued to observe the Passover throughout the entire old covenant age. The Lord's Supper is the fulfillment / antitype of the Passover. The New Covenant Church took the Lord's Supper while it awaited its redemption from the old covenant age. (Lk. 21:28; Rom. 8:23; Eph. 1:14; 4:30) Then after the Church entered the (spiritual) Promised Land (in A.D. 70), it was to continue taking the Lord's Supper throughout the entire New Covenant Age. Just like the Passover, the Lord's Supper is an age long Covenant-ordinance.
Cessation response: "The Lord's Supper" was not the fulfillment / antitype of the Passover. "The Lord's Supper" was the Passover. (Lk. 22:15-16) It was a continuation of and a redefinition of the Passover for the Last Days Church. Because "the Lord's Supper" was itself the Passover, "the Lord's Supper" was fulfilled at the same time the Passover was fulfilled: In A.D. 70. Christ Himself in us is the Fulfillment / Antitype of the Passover (I Cor. 5:7-8) and of "the Lord's Supper." (Lk. 22:16)
Continuation argument: The Lord's Supper was given to Gentile believers. This proves that it was not an “old covenant ritual.” It is therefore a New Covenant ordinance and is to be observed forever.
Cessation response: The Lord's Supper was a “transition ritual,” just like the revelatory gifts (tongues and prophecy) were “transition gifts” that were given to both Jews and gentiles, until the gifts were fulfilled and done away in A.D. 70. “The Lord's Supper” was likewise a sign to the Jews, to "proclaim the Lord's death” in all nations until He came and destroyed the hand-made, old covenant temple. (I Cor. 11:26)
Continuation argument: God always gave "signs and seals" with His covenants. This is the pattern of Scripture. Circumcision was the sign and seal of the Abrahamic covenant. (Gen. 17:10-14; Rom. 4:11) Under the New Covenant, we now have two "signs and seals": Baptism and the Lord's Supper.
Cessation response: The New Covenant is the fulfillment of the Abrahamic covenant. The "sign" of that covenant (circumcision) was fulfilled and replaced with spiritual circumcision (i.e., "the circumcision of Christ" in Col. 2:11), not with "the Lord's Supper" and ritual baptism. Christ Himself came to dwell in us in A.D. 70 in fulfillment of all the "signs" and of all the fleshly ordinances. (including "the Lord's Supper") He Himself is now our Bread (flesh) and Wine (blood). The New Covenant is a covenant of substance and fulfillment, not a covenant of more "signs."
What do YOU think ?
The only question seems to be whether or not the Lord's Supper was the Passover. If so, then it makes perfect sense why Paul referred to a terminus to the event at the coming of the Lord.. And what other terminus could he be referring to except that great terminus that awaited that generation??
Looks obvious to me cessation has more solid biblical support.
Amen. If David Green has accurately represented the primary bases for continuation, then continuation is on highly dubious exegetical ground.
Continuation has a legitimate response to #1, but in light of #'s 2-7, even #1 goes to the cessation side! Cessation 7. Continuation 0.
It seems once you start down the road of truth (preterism), you will eventually have to give up all your old truditions. Why is it so hard to just worship in Spirit and Truth?
Without ever discussing the this issue with anyone, I determined that "Lord's Supper" was not something I needed to practice as I had been taught, and therefore did not apply as it had been presented to me. I came to this conclusion purely by my own study and leading of the Spirit. I thought I must be crazy and dared not mention it to anyone. Now that I see others have come to the same conclusion, I think we maybe are all being lead by the same Spirit. Do any of you ever question by what Spirit are we being lead? While I feel that I am right, I don't ever feel that not capable of being wrong. When I start droping tradition, it's hard, and I get fought at every turn. Am I alone?
Excellent! The Lord's Supper (the Passover) was the last days church's "Manna" "until" the Parousia, at which time the Lord's Supper was "fulfilled" and made "new" in the Kingdom. Which means, "Christ Himself came to dwell in us in A.D. 70 in fulfillment of ...'the Lord's Supper.' He Himself is now our Bread (flesh) and Wine (blood). The New Covenant is a covenant of substance and fulfillment, not a covenant of more 'signs.'" Solid! Keep up the good work.
Is there anyone out there who thinks that these "continuation arguments," taken as a whole, really have any biblical weight?? The only way that are convincing is if we assume they are true!
Bro David: In love I submit you still have a Terminal Eschatology and differ in hermeneutics none whatsoever from the hyper-dispensationalist. It's over! Jesus has established his Kingdom, Death has been defeated, Satan has been destroyed, the Law no longer holds men in fear of death and the world is not going to end. What purpose is baptism, the lord's supper? Jesus has been proven to be the Messiah (baptism's purpose)and the Jesus has proven he could return (70A.D.) and the lord's supper has served its purpose. Are we still bound to the traditions and teachings of men? Bob email@example.com P. S. We can't have our cake and eat it too. As Paul my goal is to arrive at my resurrection (death)alhough Bro. Paul came a little short of it, he is still probably satisfied with his current state.
Regarding Continuation argument #5: How could "the Lord's Supper" be a fulfillment / antitype if "the Lord's Supper" itself had yet to be fulfilled? (Lk. 22:16)
It appears that tradition is a stronghold indeed. The entire preterist position rests upon faith that scripture is accurate - that Jesus did come again, the resurrection of the dead did occur, the White Throne Judgment happened, etc. Simply put, Jesus spoke of things "spiritual" - a kingdom not of this world - a kingdom not of observation. However, we still seem to require a "sign"; An observable ritual or something to "prove" we are followers of the faith. If a preterist believes these practices have ceased, they are usually accused of being a "hyper" preterist, as if they believe in "too much" fulfillment. My question is, how much fulfillment has Jesus accomplished? How much transition period do we drag along with us? The NT teaches the building of a SPIRITUAL house through SPIRITUAL rebirth, worship, and sacrifices. Where is the emphasis on continued carnal ordinances? I guess Jesus made a "continuance" statement when He asked if He would find faith on the earth when He "come"!
PREVIOUS COMMENT: ".....I guess Jesus made a 'continuance' statement when He asked if He would find faith on the earth when He 'come'!" QUESTION: I understood the rest of your comment, but how does Lk. 18:8 imply cessation?
The ritual of communion was created when the Lord Jesus substituted wine for the blood of the Atonement and bread for the body of the Scapegoat. Since the promise of the New Covenant was to complete the Old Covenant and bring the Messiah's kinsmen into the New Jerusalem, then I submit that any "continuation" of New Covenant rituals is post-millenialism and not preterism. The Apostles and prophets addressed the Houses of Judah and Ephraim when they spoke of the restoration of the Kingdom. The Kingdom of God has always been the People and the Nation. Their hope was to be reconciled to God and redeemed; that their debt to the Law would be paid by the blood of the Messiah. No one wrote to or about pagans, which is what we would be to Peter and Paul.
In the previous comment, someone said that we would be "pagans" to Peter and Paul because we are not "the Messiah's kinsmen," of "the Houses of Judah and Ephraim." RESPONSE: Cessation is perfectly biblical without using any "Christian Identity" arguments. The promise was not only to physical Abrahamites. The promise was to all who believe: "It is too small a thing that You should be My Servant To raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved ones of Israel; I will also make You a Light of the nations so that My salvation may reach to the end of the earth." (Isa. 49:6)
There is an unfortunate tendency to create what I call, "one-liner theology;" basing a system of belief on verses lifted out of their context. Isaiah 49:5-6 And now says the Lord, who formed Me from the womb to be His Servant, To bring Jacob back to Him, in order that Israel might be gathered to Him (for I am honored in the sight of the Lord, and My God is my strength), He says, "It is too small a thing that you should be My Servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved ones of Israel; I will also make you a light of the nations so that My salvation may reach to the end of the earth (land)." Making His servant a "light of the nations" so that His salvation might reach to the "end of the earth (land)" shows me that His intent was to be a light -- a beacon which would draw His People (Isreal) to Him. In other words, those who dwelt within the foreign lands would be guided by His light back to their own Land. I think that the earlier reference in Isaiah to the light is applicable: Isaiah 9:2 The people who walk in darkness will see a great light; those who live in a dark land, the light will shine on them. Isaiah speaks to the ingathering of Israel further in the context of Chapter 49, as well. For instance: Isaiah 49:14-15 But Zion said, "The LORD has forsaken me, and the Lord has forgotten me." Can a woman forget her nursing child and have no compassion on the son of her womb? Even these may forget, but I will not forget you. So, those who lived in "the dark land" (the exiles) would be remembered by the Lord God. Isaiah 49:22 Thus says the Lord God, "Behold, I will lift up My hand to the nations and set up My standard to the peoples ; and they will bring your sons in bosom, and your daughters will be carried on shoulders." Once again it is Israel that will be brought forth from out of the nations -- not the nations themselves -- and returned to their own land. Those nations who had oppressed the People would suffer for what they had done: Isaiah 49:25 Surely, thus says the LORD, "Even the captives of the mighty man will be taken away, and the prey of the tyrant will be rescued; for I will contend with the one who contends with you, and I will save your sons." And the result? Isaiah 49:26 "I will feed your oppressors with their own flesh, and they will become drunk with their own blood as with sweetwine; and all flesh will know that I, the LORD, am your Savior and your Redeemer, the Mighty One of Jacob." "Your Savior" is not contextually linked with the nations, but with the Twelve Tribes. In my opinion, the context doesn't support the view that Isaiah 49 is speaking of the Gentiles as being gathered together with Israel. The usage of the designation, "Jacob" for those whom He was to gather shows me that He is not distinguishing between Judah and Israel, but is speaking of the entire corporate entity -- His People.
REGARDING THE PREVIOUS COMMENT: In Isa. 49:6, "the tribes of Jacob" and the scattered "preserved ones of Israel" are CONTRASTED WITH "THE NATIONS." This fact is so undeniable that only "Christian Identity" White Supremacists have the gall to so rebelliously deny it. ("Israel" is also contrasted with "the nations" or "the gentiles" in other post-exilic prophets and in the New Testament.) Yes, of course the prophets predicted the reunion of God's scattered nation, but what the "Christian Identity" wall builders (Eph. 2:14) resist so hatefully is the spiritual fulfillment of that prophecy in the body of the Savior. Specifically, THE GATHERING AND UNION OF ALL MANKIND THROUGH FAITH IN THE GOSPEL. The anti-cross, "Christian Identity" blasphemers abhor the thought of it, but even negros are sons of Abraham through faith in Jesus.
LOL! What nonsense. Christian Identity are as much the idiots as the appropriaters of Jacob's Promise are. The Promise to Abraham was that he would inherit the Land, not the planet. Read Genesis, you'll see what the extent of the Land was. The Jews were given the Land and it was because of the contract made with Abraham. Since the contract with Moses would not allow the uncircumcised into the Kingdom, the Messiah's mission reverted to one that had been previously ratified so that the scattered tribes of Israel would qualify (compare with the resurrection of Ezra -- Ezra commanded all mixed progeny to be banished, especially the uncircumcised). The Wild Olives and the Natural Olives were the Two Groups who were to be made into One Body. Neither of the Trees was pagan, but represented the fulfillment of Jer. 31:31. If the previous comments are any indication of the scholarship among covenantal theologians, then the movement hasn't got a chance. So, all I have to do is remain patient.
The previous comment is a curious collection of non sequiturs.
There will always be those who are ever learning but never able to come to a knowledge of the truth. Those with ears to hear will hear. The rest I couldn't care less about.
Dear Bethren: My opinion is that both the Lord's Supper and baptism are areas that pose no threat to the consistency of Preterism. If they are observed it poses no rejection of Fulfilled Eschatology so long as their meaning is made clear. I personally believe that both the Lord's Supper and Baptism ceased once the New Covenant was established, but if one choses the contrary I see no problem. We have no authority for (church) buildings, organs, pianos, choirs and an endless list of other practices that we variously observe. To me the salient and poignant point is that we are under the New Covenant, the universe will never be destroyed, Jesus returned AS HE PROMISED in 70 A.D. and to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord. This is our resurrection and glorious hope. I desire, as Paul, to be absent from the body and be present with the lord as I also share the wretchedness of the misery we experience in the BODY of this DEATH, but not the DEATH of this BODY. The death experience in this body is but our movement into the glory which Jesus Christ has prepared for us. Let us rejoice in those areas where we agree and give liberty to the brethren in areas that do not deny the relavatcy of the abiding power of the New Heavens and the New Earth. Bro. Bob Pelham, N. C. firstname.lastname@example.org
I have one question. What did the Apostle John and the early church do about the Lord's Supper after A.D. 70. As far as I know, there is no record of John stopping the practice of the Lord's Supper. All of these early church fathers that we quote as preterists, did they stop with the Lord's Supper? The Lord's Supper is the only way Jesus asked us to remember His death. He asked us to just do this one simple thing. It proclaims His death and sacrifice and our freedom of sin until He came and after! It does not loose that effect! He never said it would. As for the baptism stuff, that was great! There is only one path, a narrow one, that gets to Heaven (Matt 7:13,14). Jesus is the WAY, the Truth, and the Life (John 14:6). We must, therefore, be in Christ, or clothed with Christ to make it to Heaven. The only way we put on Christ is through Baptism (Romans 6:1-14). It is the only way we receive the Holy Spirit (Acts 2:38). If we are not baptized we cannot live a new life (Romans 6:4), we cannot be free from sin (Romans 6:6), and we cannot believe that we will live with Christ (Romans 6:8). Great Article! It answered a lot of my questions.
Question (1). I would like to know if George Tarabolsi is talking about spiritual baptism or ritual baptism in the article which is posted in your archives? Question (2).Whether or not I agree or with the preterist position that says (yes) to the ceasation of the Lords supper, it seems to me that those who hold to this position could certainly use this to correct those who mistakenly believe that preterism started with a 1600's Jesuit conspiracy against Protestantism. Especially because the witty Jesuits certainly should have seen it coming that the Lord's coming in 1 Cor.11:26 would be interpreted according to the preterist view as fulfilled in 70AD, thus, no more need not only for the Lord's Supper but also no more need for THE MASS!, WHICH WAS AND IS THE CHIEF R.C. DOCTRINE! Do you agree? If not please explain why not! Thanx, Glenn Schmidt
I Corinthians 1:17 "For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel, not in cleverness of speech, that the cross of Christ should be made void." Paul recognizes that baptism is not the saving grace, the gospel is the saving grace.
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