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Debates and Critical Articles

Anti-Preterist Writings From Futurists, With Responses
 Hyper-Preterist Critical Materials Here

CHRISTIAN / NON-CHRISTIAN DEBATE ON PROPHECY TOPICS

  • John Loftus: Debunking Christianity: Preterism is an Admission that Jesus Failed to Return - "what difference did it make to the world in general that Jerusalem was destroyed in 70 AD? Presumably God never had to ask anyone for permission to reign over his world. So what difference did the destruction of Jerusalem make in the lives of anyone at all with regard to the reign of God-in-Jesus? "

  • Paul Manata: No Fair, You're Cheating "What's he talking about? What was the "return" that the early church expected? A bodily one? The one where Jesus comes to judge the living and the dead, etc? Well, "partial-preterism" doesn't think that this "return" has happened. So it looks like Loftus doesn't understand either partial-preterism or early church history. Which is it partner?"
"Parousia Delay" Study Archive Pretty Clearly, Christianity is True

FUTURIST / PRETERIST DEBATES

 

Dr. Israel P. Warren (Modern Preterist)

  • The Parousia, A Critical Study of the Scripture Doctrines of Christ's Second Coming, His Reign as King ; The Resurrection of the Dead ; and the General Judgment (1879) "Of the doctrine thus presented, I desire to remark in review: 1. That it is to be regarded neither as a praeterist nor a futurist view ; rather does it include both.   If it be affirmed that the Parousia began at the ascension, it is not meant that it is not also a fact of all time coming ages.   I ask especially that I may not be represented as saying that the resurrection is "past already," or that the day of judgment occurred at the destruction of Jerusalem.  The Parousia, including under it Christ's reign as King, Life-giver, and Judge, is not an event, but a dispensation.. The past, present, and future meet in one grand whole."

Rev.  Josiah Litch (Millerite)

  • Christ Yet to Come: A Review of I.P. Warren's Parousia (1880) " "He speaks of the fact that the Parousia was 'near'.' If, as the Doctor so strenuously contends, parousia signifies "presence," not "coming" what does he mean by "was near" ? Was there an interval of some forty years after Christ left his disciples on the mountain in Galilee, saying, "Lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world," to the time of Jerusalem's overthrow, when Christ's presence was not with them ? I press this point and urge an answer. Was there forty years, more or less, when they had to work without his omnipresence ? If there was not, and the time of his presence was still future when Paul wrote, where had been his omnipresence ? Either Dr. Warren or his reviewer is confused in his mode of apprehending and expressing this great theme. Does not the word near imply not yet here but coming : and if parousia is near, is it not coming ? How is this ?"

 

V. GARY DEMAR

 

Critical: Audio Files - Gary DeMar (Preterist) vs. Thomas Ice (Futurist) : The Great Tribulation: Past or Future Debate held May 26, 2006 at a World View Conference in Toccoa, GA.

Bill/Sandy Kalivas and Mike Rose

Six Points Refuting the Early Writing of Revelation - B./S.K."Historicism is a satisfying and godly view of Revelation. It allows for God's hand to be seen in our past, present and future. Events which have been considered political in nature are shown to be fulfillment of His recorded word. No other interpretation offers this. Praeterism, placing Revelation behind us and Futurism, placing Revelation before us, put these revealing prophecies out of our present lives." | Kalivas' Six Points Refuted - M.R. "The Christian Separatist Church is, to the best of my knowledge, the only formal organization in the world preaching the complete truth of what the Bible really teaches in all areas of Bible doctrine."
 


TIME Magazine and Gary DeMar

Cover Story: Apocalypse Now "For evangelical Christians with an interest in prophecy, the headlines always come with asterisks pointing to scriptural footnotes." - TIME | The Bible and the Apocalypse - TIME | The Bible and the Apocalypse - TIME "Since Sept. 11, people from cooler corners of Christianity have begun asking questions about what the Bible has to say about how the world ends, and preachers have answered their questions with sermons they could not have imagined giving a year ago" | Time's Puff Piece: The Devil is in the Details - G.D.
 


Larry Spargimino and Gary DeMar

Preterism and the Eclipse of Pre-millennialism - L.S. "Dispensational pre-millennialists have a deep-seated distrust of the world system. We believe that this distrust is what is taught in Scripture." | Will the Real Anti-Prophets Please Stand Up? - G.D. "If modern-day preterists are "anti-prophets," then we are in good historical company. A survey of the most widely read and respected commentaries over the past four-and-a-half centuries will show that preterism, not the strained futurism of dispensational premillennialism, was the predominate prophetic system held by Bible believing Christians. "
 


Phil Johnson and Gary DeMar

Controverting the Incontrovertible - P.J. | Defending the Indefensible - G.D.
 


Tommy Ice and Gary DeMar

A. Zechariah 12-14

Preterism and Zechariah 12-14 - T.I. | Zechariah 14 and the Coming of Christ - "describes events leading up to and including the destruction of Jerusalem in A.D. 70." | Thomas Ice and the Time Texts - G.D. "By never raising the issue of how the second person plural ("you") is used throughout Matthew 10, he is counting on his loyal readers not to notice. And who would think to go to Mark's account of the Transfiguration to see that the "disciples" is a larger group than Peter, James, and John? Of course, we all know the answer to this question: Preterists would." | Bible Minimalism and "The History of Preterism" - G.D. "Ice and LaHaye get off on the wrong foot in their analysis of preterism. The historical argument is a death blow, or to use Mark Hitchcock's metaphor from his chapter on the dating of Revelation, "A Stake in the Heart" to their brand of futurism. The earliest historical sources, the Didache, the testimony of James, the brother of Jesus, and 1 Clement demonstrate that preterism's history is a first-century history." | Ice/DeMar Debate on LeftBehind.com

B. Matthew 24:14 Gospel Preached to World

The Gospel Preached to All the World  - G.D.  "In an article published in the November 2002 issue of Midnight Call magazine, Thomas Ice presents the dispensational case that Matthew 24:14 was not fulfilled prior to the destruction of Jerusalem in A.D. 70. Tommy should be commended for finally doing what preterists have been asking dispensationalists to do for quite some time--deal with preterist arguments by actually interacting with preterist published works and by comparing Scripture with Scripture. I would be willing to wager that Ice's analysis of Matthew 24:14 is the first time any dispensationalist has attempted to reconcile this passage with global-language passages which indicate that the gospel had been preached to the "whole world" before Jerusalem was destroyed in A.D. 70 (Col. 1:6, 23; Rom. 1:8; 16:25–26)."  "Few modern commentaries deal with Matthew 24:14 exegetically. It's as if Greek never existed. Fewer still even acknowledge that for centuries the view of nearly every pre-twentith-century commentator applied the events of Matthew 24 to the time leading up to and including the destruction of Jerusalem in A.D. 70.  Contrary to how modern commentaries handle Matthew 24:14 and its significance in determining the timing of prophetic events, older commentaries offer detailed discussions of the passage and show how it found proximate fulfillment in the first century prior to Jerusalem's destruction. What follows is merely a sample of how standard older commentaries, many still in print and used widely, interpreted Matthew 24:14." | The Global Proclamation of the Gospel - "The preterist arguments for a first-century fulfillment of Matthew 24:14 are much less than compelling. Their insistence that oikoumene in Matthew 24:14 must refer to the ancient Roman Empire has no traction."

  • Tommy Ice: Ezekiel 38 & 39 "As I have thought more critically about literal interpretation and this passage while doing this series, I have come to disagree with a statement made by Mark Hitchcock and I where we said: "Ezekiel spoke in language that the people of his day could understand. If he had spoken of MIG-29s, laser-fired missiles, tanks, and assault rifles, this text would have been nonsensical to everyone until the twentieth century."[10] Instead, I have come to agree with DeMar who says: "A lot has to be read into the Bible in order to make Ezekiel 38 and 39 fit modern-day military realities that include jet planes, 'missiles,' and 'atomic and explosive' weaponry."[11] Even though I think DeMar is right on this one point, it does not mean that his conclusion is correct."

  • Donald E. Green - A Critique of Preterism (2001 PDF) "All would agree that the Olivet Discourse presents some interpretive many challenges no matter the eschatological position of the interpreter"


 

V. HANK HANEGRAAFF


Tommy Ice: Hank Hanegraaff Calls Tim LaHaye a Racist and a Blasphemer (2007) "Hanegraaff’s proposed interpretative approaches, if implemented, would send the church back to the Dark Ages hermeneutically. The great majority of the book is a rant against dispensationalism in general and Tim LaHaye in particular. There is precious little actual exegesis, if any at all, to support his preterist-idealist eschatology, however, there are great quantities of some of the most vicious invective against LaHaye and many other Bible prophecy teachers that I have ever read in print."

Hanegraaff and Schmidt vs Tommy Ice on interpretation of Revelation on MSNBC's 'Scarborough Country' FREDERICK SCHMIDT, SOUTHERN METHODIST UNIVERSITY: What this kind of reading of scripture really represents is a sectarian and fairly narrow approach to the Book of Revelation in particular.  And what it invites the reader to suppose is that someone in the 1st century wrote a book that was unintelligible to the people of the 1st century, but would be intelligible to people of the 20th century, which is just not a plausible reading of the book.  SCARBOROUGH:  Thomas Ice, do you agree? THOMAS ICE, AUTHOR, “CHARTING THE END TIMES”:  No, I don‘t. .. HANEGRAAFF: So, Jesus uses the language of the Old Testament prophets and now applies it to a near future event, which is the fall of Jerusalem.  So, he uses final eschaton language and applies it to a near future event.  In fact, if you read the Book of Revelation, it‘s the revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show him, his servants, the things that must soon take place.  Soon means soon.  Soon does not mean far. 


Eschatology Erupts! Preterism vs. Premillennialism
Hank Hanegraaff vs. Tim LaHaye
 

Zola Levitt - "Tyndale House Publishers, originally the purveyors of The Living Bible and other very doctrinally accurate works of Christian literature, are now going to publish a book on the preterist viewpoint.  This strange rendition of Bible prophecy claims that it all happened back in the first century.   As to where we are now on the prophetic calendar, it's anybody's guess.   If this is the Kingdom, we must be very disappointed." (Dateline Jerusalem p. 162)

New Take on Rapture Puts Authors in Apocalyptic Feud | TIME: "Is it the End of the World as this Author Knows it?" | Dr. Tim LaHaye

"The Last Disciple.. has sold 50,000 copies in six weeks (vs. 85,000 for Left Behind in its first year). But LaHaye says he isn't worried. He plans to deliver the four books he owes Tyndale and let readers decide how this story ends." (TIME)

  • The End: Best-selling books don't see it alike - "It's about much more than selling books, scholars say. The high-stakes publishing battle between the two men comes on the heels of the millennial fervor surrounding the year 2000, and feeds a stream of fear rippling just below the surface of public consciousness. "  "To Hanegraaff, Revelation was written before the destruction of the Jerusalem temple to encourage persecuted Christians. He says the "end-time model presented in Left Behind is hermeneutically false in that it attributes powers to the beast that belong only to God, but it is historically false because it places the beast in the 21st century."
  • Hank Hanegraaff Gave Tim LaHaye the People's Elbow! "This story is too good to pass up. LaHaye, alleged author of the Left Behind Series, and Hank Hanegraaff, the man who refers to himself as the Bible Answer Man and lives in a palace near San Diego where he suffers for Jesus, are having a feud about the End Times. Sort of."
  • Eschatology Erupts: LaHaye vs. Hanegraaff, Preterism vs. Premillennialism - "Of course the other thing that occurs to me is that LaHaye feels that because his book series was and is the money making machine, that Tyndale then needs to run any new authors and their ideas past him first. Sort of arrogant, but hey, he's human too."
  • The Bible Answer Man is Right! Crimson Catholic: "Correct me if I'm wrong but a partial preterist interpretation, which Hank is advocating, does not teach that Jesus returned in 68 A.D, that's full preterism, right? Partial preterist's just don't believe in a rapture, I think."
  • An Apocalyptic Showdown - Lexington Herald-Ledger "What if the Rapture has already happened? What if the Book of Revelation's prophecies have been fulfilled?"

"I am reading the Bible, specifically Revelation -- it was written for first-century Christians. I am not relying on some wooden, literal interpretation that is unsupportable." (Apocalyptic Feud)

HANK MISQUOTED BY DALLAS MORNING NEWS IN 'APOCALYPTIC FEUD'

"John was not writing about the future," Mr. Hanegraaff said. "He was writing about the times he was living in, using symbolism from the Old Testament prophets to describe conditions in the first century. All the major elements of the Book of Revelation – Tribulation, Armageddon, Rapture – took place at that time."

Hank: "First of all, this is not a man, it's a woman. And her name is Ira. And she wrote this article. And after she had written the article I saw the quote that had been attributed to me. So I gave her a call and she's no longer with the Dallas Morning News. What she explained to me is. The editor that took the story over after she had initially written it, but not finished it, confabulated some of my statements. And I clarified with her, "Have I ever said anything like that to you?" She said "No." And I said, "You're absolutely certain?" And I also asked her about some of the other quotes that were made with regards to Dr. LaHaye saying that I believe that Christ came back in AD68 and she did clarify that and say "Yes, that is precisely what he said. I have that in my notes." But she also made it very clear that I did not make this statement. Nor would I make this statement. Anybody that's listened to me for any period of time knows that I would not make that statement." (Windows Media | Real Media)

"I don't know what science fiction he is reading," said Dr. LaHaye. "We believe the Rapture is going to come, not his nonsense that Christ came back in 68 A.D."


Catholic Apologetics International
Art Sippo and the Demise of Catholic Apologetics - "Sippo: Scott (Hahn) is very well read in the Patristic literature and is on the cutting edge of modern biblical scholarship. Anyone who has tried to keep up with the field knows that the movement for "biblical theology" is a new and exciting area of study that crosses confessional lines and participates in the New Pauline Perspective which has been systematically dismantling the classical Protestant interpretation of Scripture in favor of a view of soteriology that is more favorable to the traditional Catholic position. R. Sungenis: Thanks for proving my point. In case you didn't catch it, Sippo has admitted by the statement "crosses confessional lines and participates in the New Pauline Perspective," that he and Hahn have received their newfound ideas on soteriology from Protestants. Need I say more?"

 

FUTURIST CRITIQUES OF MODERN PRETERISM

Critiques of Hyper Preterism Here

LATEST ADDITIONS

FUTURIST CRITIQUES - GENERAL

 

Jonathan H. Barlow
 A Response to the Preterist Interpretation of the Olivet Discourse - "There are really only two dominant arguments against the literary interpretation of Matthew 24. These arguments are not only advanced by preterists, but it also by some partial preterists (those who do not adopt the entire theological program and realized eschatology of the Full Preterists). R.C. Sproul advances this first argument, for instance, in his recent popular book on the subject."

Irvin Baxter Jr.
 Historicism vs. Futurism - "The other position is called Preterist or Historicist. Those holding this position contend that the prophecies of the Bible are largely, if not entirely, fulfilled and past. The Futurist position has been the view held by the majority of Christians for at least the last century. However, the Historicist position seems to be reasserting itself of late. "
Climbing the unstable doctrine of Preterism: Examining a False Teaching - (From Indiana Bible College's Perspectives Magazine - Perspectives Magazine) "The teaching of preterism destroys this stated plan of God for the times in which we now live by teaching that the Bible’s prophecies have nothing to do with us today. Consequently, preterism runs counter to God’s expressed intention for endtime revival. Therefore, it should not be believed or taught."

Brother Sal
 Brother Sal on Preterism - "I have never written a piece on Preterism, because what I teach is at the other end of the spectrum, and I don’t think about it much. But over the last couple of weeks, I have received and extraordinary amount of mail with questions concerning it, so I began to think about it, and selected the following letter to answer in this forum to pass along my thoughts"

Philip Brown
This Generation Shall Not Pass - "Many Christians have switched to Preterism because of the fundamental truth that all Scripture is true.  And, of course, I would agree.  But confusing verses like these simply mean we need to dig deeper and find what we are missing.  "

Anthony Buzzard
The Markan Apocalypse - "It must follow that a destruction of Jerusalem not followed immediately by the parousia does not match the outline of events given by Christ. We may expect, therefore, a final crisis in Israel just before the arrival of Jesus in glory.."
This Generation -  "It defies common sense to believe that Jesus set an almost exact date of 40 years in Matthew 24:34, when soon after he denied that any knowledge of times and seasons is available to us (Acts 1:7) in regard to the coming of the future Kingdom (Acts 1:6)."

William B. Chalfant
 The Preterist Spirit of Deception - "Some months ago I wrote a refutation of the teaching of a prominent "partial" preterist, who has been very active in spreading this doctrine throughout the ranks of apostolic pentecostals. I wrote at that time that I did not think that the teaching of prophecy should be a "point of fellowship". I have been forced to modify that stand when I begin to thoroughly understand the intentions and the purpose of preterism."
 Anti-Preterist Message Board and Articles | Reply to Chalfant on 'Future of Israel' critiqu

Dr. Ronald Cooke
The Unmitigated Twaddle of Romanist-Jesuit Preterism - "I try not to cloud my readers’ minds with the twaddle that seems to be everywhere today especially in the halls of academia. The subject of ‘Preterism’ seems to be enjoying a revival of some sort today."

Charles Cooper
 That Other Gospel - "On one end of the spectrum, there are those who do not believe that Jesus said one single word of Matthew 24:1-31 and that none of what is indicated has, is, or will ever happen. On the opposite end of the spectrum are those who not only believe that Jesus said it, but that every single word indicated in Matthew 24:1-31 will be fulfilled in the fullest sense possible. It is baffling that such wide and diverse opinions about this precious passage of Scripture permeate the Body of Christ."

Christian Debater
Why Partial Preterism is Wrong - "..an extremely strange view that everything in the entire Book of Revelation was fulfilled prior to 70 A.D., including a symbolic rapture of the saints, the Antichrist, Babylon in Revelation etc. This is so far from the truth that very few believe it."

Lambert Dolphin
 Preterism and the Confused Sea of Modern Eschatology - "Preterist theology states that the prophetic statements referring to the endtimes as presented in Revelation were fulfilled in the first century of Christendom. Preterists feel this wrapped up God's plan for Israel and that the church has now inherited all that God promised Israel."
Has Bible Prophecy Already Been Fulfilled?

Les Feldick (2001)
 Don't Believe it! "They claim to be letter perfect in their interpretation of Matthew 23:34, and then proceed to expel or twist all the prophetic things that are still awaiting a future fulfillment. If all future events were fulfilled by titus in 70 AD, then what do they do with the following scriptures? Did any of these things take place before, and up to, 70 AD? An ounce of common sense says, "No."

Robert Fleming, younger. (1701)
 A Postscript: Containing a short account of the first principles of the Apocalyptical Interpretations Advances by the Protestants - "the learning of Grotius and Dr. Hammond had influenced many to follow another way of interpreting the Revelation, as the reputation of Mr. Baxter had swayed others to think well of the same."

Norman L. Geisler
A Friendly Response to Hank Hanegraaff's Book, The Last Disciple (2006) "Of course even partial preterists are "futurists" regarding the Second Coming and Resurrection. But they reject the futurist understanding of the bulk of Book of Revelation. "

A Response to Steve Gregg's Defense of Hanegraaff (2007) "In brief, Gregg’s attempt to rescue the partial preterist position he shares with Hank Hanegraaff is a failure. It rests upon a methodologically unorthodox way of interpreting Scripture. If this same method were used on the Gospel narratives of the resurrection of Christ, the preterist would also be theologically unorthodox. Thus, while partial preterism itself is not heretical, its hermeneutic is unorthodox, and if applied consistently, would lead to heresy, as indeed it does in full preterism."

 

Great Joy in Great Trib
Preterism - "ONE THING THAT SEEMED UNIMAGINABLE IN 1995 IS THAT PEOPLE WOULD BE EMBRACING THE PRETERIST VIEW OF THE BOOK OF REVELATION. PRETERISM is also a form of rebellion against the Word of God. Blessings follow obedience to the Word of God and there will be a price to pay for rebellion. So how do we help the PRETERIST brethren from their new strong delusion? Simply do like Jesus did and ask them some simple questions, like - When did Jesus split the Mount of Olives in two? You see, IF has all happened, they should be able to tell you when Jesus touched down and split the Mount of Olives in two at His return. I am sure you will be able to think of many such simple questions. "

Gunter Creek Prophetic Ministry
 On Earth As It Is In Heaven - "We have false doctrines which they say, God did away with Israel, some called Preterist and replacement theology, this is not true, Romans 11 is still in your Bible, and the prophecies were not fulfilled in 70 A.D. I don’t ever recall the apostles judging the twelve tribes, as in Mathew 29:18 and I still pray “thy Kingdom come."

Marshall Hall
Preterit View: Straining at a Gnat and Swallowing a Camel - "Dr. Gentry put it this way: “...the matter of Revelation's date of composition is CRUCIAL to the correct [preterit] understanding of the book...the matter of dating is ALL-IMPORTANT to the identity of the Beast [of Revelation].” (The Beast of Revelation, pp.6,7.) The bottom line here is that Preterists themselves understand that their model cannot even exist without a composition date for the Revelation somewhere between late 64 and early 68 AD. That is the only way their model can try to cast the Emperor Nero or anyone else in the role of the Beast....This admission by itself is enough to run up the odds against this eschatological hypothesis to about 1000 to 1."

Ed Hindson
The New Last Days Scoffers (2005) "Well, it may surprise you to know that Preterism is experiencing a new wave of interest these days thanks to the encouragement of popular radio personalities like R.C. Sproul and Hank Hanegraaff.  Sproul openly admits he is a “partial preterist” and Hanegraaff claims he is seriously considering it.   While most preterists would insist they are defending the power of Christ, they are actually denying it.  They are trying to “bring in the Kingdom” without the King.  And might I add, they are fighting a losing battle! "

Historicist.com
 Problems with Preterism

David Hocking
What is Preterism? (2005) "Preterists believe that the promise of our Lord’s Second Coming began to be fulfilled in the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD. Some believe that the prophecies mentioned above were fulfilled in the Second Century AD at the time of the Second Jewish Revolt against the Roman Empire at the time of Emperor Hadrian. Some preterists hold that the prophecies were fulfilled during the first three centuries AD as God wages war on the enemies of the Church (which they argue include Israel and Rome!) resulting in the “Christianization” of the Roman Empire under Constantine."

Dave Hunt
 Dave Hunt on Preterism: "they put out a statement a few years ago that all the promises to Israel were fulfilled in the time of Joshua. Now Joshua lived 110 years, these are everlasting promises, this is an everlasting covenant, everlasting possession of this land. And we would only have to go to, I mean, there are hundreds of prophecies promising Israel be restored. " // On Hyper Preterism: "They claim that Jesus Christ returned in fulfillment of His promise to come back to take us to heaven, He returned in the person of the Roman armies to destroy Jerusalem and to excommunicate Israel, and Israel is finished. Now if that is not wicked, and if that is not twisting the scriptures I don’t know what is."

Tommy Ice
The Destructive View of Preterism "You might be interested to know that in 1843, when the journal Bibliotheca Sacra was first started, it taught Preterism. You can go back and look at the early articles – Scholars such as Moses Stewart and James Robinson wrote for the journal in those early years. It was not until 1934, when Dallas Seminary took control of Bib Sac, that it became a futurist organ."
The Global Proclamation of the Gospel - "The preterist arguments for a first-century fulfillment of Matthew 24:14 are much less than compelling. Their insistence that oikoumene in Matthew 24:14 must refer to the ancient Roman Empire has no traction."
Preterism and Zechariah 12-14
Gary DeMar's End Times Fiction
Has Bible Prophecy Already Been Fulfilled?
Preterist Implications for the New Testament

 In Depth Bible Studies
Preterism - Christian Bible Studies "By theorizing that Nero is the antichrist, Preterists open the door for validating their theory by comparing the historical and Biblical records, records which cannot be reconciled and so disprove Preterist doctrine.. Preterists ignore a clear, unbroken chain of Futurism handed down from the apostles through 70 AD on into the 3rd century.. Preterists ignore New Testament scripture from both the Gospels and the epistles, which demonstrate that both Jesus and the apostles understood there would be a long delay before his second coming."

Grant Jeffrey
Book release - "Triumphant Return" (2001) "4. Arguments and Evidence against Preterism - A powerful new attack upon this fundamental biblical doctrine is beginning to infiltrate the minds and spirits of many Christians in our day precisely as the New Testament warns us. The apostle Peter prophesied that in the last days an attack would arise within the Church against the Second Coming. Peter warned that many would say, "Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation" (2 Peter 3:4). Those who believe literally the prophecies of the Word of God are now engaged in an unprecedented battle for the truth of Christ's second coming."
Grant Jeffrey - "Triumfant Return" Page - Arguments and Evidence Against Preterism

Phil Johnson
 Controverting the Incontrovertible - "Whether it's deliberate or just a result of Demar's sloppiness and failing eyesight, his review badly distorts and caricatures MacArthur's book rather than describing it accurately and fairly. Combine that fact with DeMar's smug certainty that he has already written the last word on biblical eschatology "

Eld. Laurence Justice
Preposterous Preterism "Partial preterists believe that only some of the prophecy in scripture has already been fulfilled. This matter becomes confusing when we realize that there are partial preterists among premillennials and among amillennials and among post millennials. Hal Lindsay and Jack Van Impe who call themselves premillennials make good money mixing preterism and futurism in their books on prophecy."

 Bill Kalivas
 Six Points Refuting the Early Writing of Revelation - "Historicism is a satisfying and godly view of Revelation. It allows for God's hand to be seen in our past, present and future. Events which have been considered political in nature are shown to be fulfillment of His recorded word. No other interpretation offers this. Praeterism, placing Revelation behind us and Futurism, placing Revelation before us, put these revealing prophecies out of our present lives."

Lawrence Keille
Fallacies of Preterism - "Preterism is an expedient designed to shield Rome ; Preterism violates the principle of consistent symbolism. ;  Preterism glorifies the Papacy by ignoring the actualities.; Preterism denies the elemental principle of Bible prophecy.;Preterism, like futurism, leaves an explained gap.; Preterism offers no adequate fulfillments.; Preterism cannot be correct if Futurism is correct."

William R. Kimball
 Great Trib future or fulfilled? "William R. Kimball, president of "Disciples Indeed" Bible School in South Lake Tahoe, California, has written a book entitled What the Bible Says About the Great Tribulation (Presbyterian & Reformed Publishing Company, 1983, paper, 291 pages). The book is primarily a study on Matthew chapter 24 and the author seeks to prove that the great tribulation (mentioned in Matthew 24:2 1) is not a future time of trouble but was fulfilled in history. He believes its historical fulfillment took place at the time of the Jewish war, around the year 70 A.D."

MODERN PRETERISM IN RESPONSE

Gary DeMar
 Tommy Ice and Dispensationalism under the Microscope -- Again "The difference is, preterism is right and dispensationalism is wrong, and because it’s wrong, it’s dangerous to Jews and the rest of us and those people who are reading the Left Behind series as if the prophetic content is actually taught in the Bible. As I’ve demonstrated in End Times Fiction, it’s not."
 No Fear of the Text - "Tim LaHaye has written another book on prophecy. No Fear of the Storm[1] was written because LaHaye recognizes that dispensational premillennialism is in trouble. "
 Defending the Indefensible - "The Second Coming does not compare favorably with The Gospel According to Jesus. Detailed analysis and comparative study are exchanged for superficial and misleading rhetoric. MacArthur scrupulously avoids the heart of the debate over the time texts."

Dave MacPherson
 Thomas Ice (Hired Gun) - "in his April-June, 1990 Bibliotheca Sacra article analyzing her revelation he carefully covered up her emphasis by quoting up to line 55 in her account, deliberately skipping over lines 58-63 (her main point), and then continuing his quotation of her while starting again at line 72!"
 Scholar Weigh My Research - "The likelihood is that Edward Irving was the first to suggest the pretribulational rapture....the outpouring on Margaret Macdonald did not include revelation of a pretribulational rapture...." But careful scholarship has long known that after Gundry saw my Macdonald findings, he deleted his Irving statement and substituted favorable comments about the Scottish lassie----changes appearing in his classic work since the 1980's"
 Thomas Ice (Bloopers) "Margaret Macdonald's handwritten account in 1830 of her pre-Antichrist (or pretribulation) rapture discovery was reproduced in two of the 19th century books written by Catholic Apostolic Church historian Robert Norton... several persons in recent years have reprinted it.  But some, like militant pretrib rapture defender and diehard Thomas Ice, have had trouble reproducing it accurately."

Dr. Randall Otto
 Preterism and the Question of Heresy

Joe Price
The Second Coming of Christ: Did it Already Occur?

OTHERS

  • Ferrel Jenkins: An Introduction to the Book of Revelation (1973) - Considers Early Date

  • The Promise of the Future by Cornelius P. Venema "Part Six includes four chapters covering the most fundamental elements of cosmic eschatology: the resurrection of the body, the final judgment, the doctrine of eternal punishment, and the new heavens and earth. In each of these chapters, the author does an excellent job of presenting the biblical view as well as critiquing various unbiblical alternatives. In the chapter on the resurrection of the body, Venema includes a thorough discussion of the nature of the resurrection body as well as an insightful evaluation of the recent debate between Murray J. Harris and Norman Geisler over Harris's understanding of the nature of the resurrection body. This discussion will prove to be especially valuable to those who are dealing with recent attempts among hyper-preterists and others to revive Harris's doctrine. "

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  • To Larry Hall: Are Preterists Saved? " Larry, are you guilty of adding non-essentials to the gospel of Jesus Christ?  In your newsletter, you are not just answering the claims of preterists.  You are setting yourself up as a judge of how wide or narrow our disagreements can be before one is rejected by God and the church.  If you are not affirming this most basic principle of the gospel – that sinners are saved by grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone, to the glory of God alone – how can you call yourself an apologist, a defender of the faith? " | To Larry Hall: Preterists and the Creeds - " If preterists really do hate and mock the creeds, and if, as you say, “. . . preterists view the vast history of Christian knowledge handed down to us by godly men to be useless and wrong,” why do you not include in your article one single quote backing your assertion of preterist hatred, mockery and fear of the creeds? You obviously went to the Preterist Archive web site.  There you could have found several articles from preterists on the creeds.  Why did you not cite just one example of hatred, mockery and fear from the preterists?  Because if you had read them, you would have found some things contradictory to your contentions. "

  • Silence of Spirit - "Who is answering God's call to repentance today, our pastors, leaders, loved ones, friends? Do they hear when God "speaks"? Or does the evil continue in God's sight despite the warnings. Aren't the bars still full on the weekends, the parties continue, the sexual immorality, lust, love of money, baby killing, sodomy, pride, selfishness, cheating, lying, stealing, hatred, killing. I'd call this a  real "preterist" world in 'spiritual' peace! Wouldn't you?" Who do we believe, the preterist cult or Jesus Christ, the Lord?"

  • Was the Jewish "World" Destroyed in AD70? - "The idea that the Roman destruction of Jerusalem in AD70 could be the prophesied end of the world, does not stand up to examination. The Jewish "world" is based in its blood, its scriptures, and its synagogue. None of these was destroyed or abolished in AD70. To make prophecies in the Bible about the second coming of Christ, and the end of the world, refer to events of AD70 misrepresents these prophecies, because nothing was destroyed that had not been destroyed in times past, and nothing was destroyed that was essential to the Jewish world's continuance into the future."

  • Is the Great Tribulation future or fulfilled?

  • Jesus didn't fulfill the validating prophecies - "If God said that his Messiah would.. bring peace to the world, rebuild the temple and reunite the Jews, then why do Christians believe Jesus was that Messiah? The only answer I have been given is that I guess Jesus promised to fulfill the prophecy in his 2nd  coming. "

  • The Last Days: Four Views

  • Last Days Madness Review - "I think the reason no reputable scholar has bothered to blast this book and the Preterist idea into kingdom come, is that they can't stop laughing long enough to take it seriously. Sorry, but if this is a fair representation of the mighty Preterist view, I'm very disappointed."

  • Preterists Attack Intercalation (http://www.gdcmedia.org/MediaMins/classinfo.asp?nm=CC02-111) "And now, as we see the signs of a rebuilt temple on the horizon, we must not forget the scoffing words of those who have decried the premillennial interpretation. We must firmly learn a lesson, and use this lesson to help weaker brothers and sisters resist the modern attacks of preterism and postmillennialism upon God's literal prophecies. As we see the stage being set to literally fulfill  the temple prophecies, let us also remember the keen words of premillennialists of earlier times."

  • A cranky Christian's view of Preterism - "If, as is held in preterism of all stripes, Revelation is a "covenant lawsuit" document against Israel, it was not intended for mass consumption but was more along the lines of legal documentation. It might shock DOV (and others!) to hear that some books in the Bible, for example Leviticus, were never meant to be sat down and read through by every person on earth."

  • The Preterist Approach: Have the Last Days Already Taken Place?  (http://www.immanuel.at/Diskurs35E.htm) "The preterist approach is indeed being discussed in many quarters (above all in the USA), and the argument – as the author quoted above admirably demonstrates – is in some respects not easily to be dismissed out of hand."

  • The End Times Controversy: The Second Coming under Attack - Now Available at your local Christian bookstore! | Harvest House "Along with other prophecy scholars, LaHaye and Ice reveal the errors taught by preterists (those who believe the seven–year Tribulation and Christ’s return happened in the past). They provide guidelines for interpreting Bible prophecy and give readers a concise understanding of what the Bible says about the future, affirming Christ’s glorious return as an event we can still look forward to."

  • Dating the book of Revelation - 'Arethas,' says Sir Isaac, ' in the beginning of his commentary quotes the opinion of Irenaeus from Eusebius, but does not follow it. For he afterwards affirms, that the Apocalypse was written before the destruction of Jerusalem and that former commentators had expounded the sixth seal of that destruction.'

  • What if the Second Temple had survived AD70? "Akenson's governing assumption is that the key event that created Christianity and Rabbinical Judaism was the destruction of the Temple at Jerusalem in AD 70"

  • This Generation Shall Not Pass (Not Preterist) - "These three verses seem to be the initial argument used by Preterists.  They believe that all prophecy has already been fulfilled, as of 70 AD.  They believe that Christ returned in 70 AD.  Therefore they remove the need to watch and be ready for Christ's return, saying He has already returned.  And since Preterism says that all prophecy has been fulfilled, they will deny the resurrection of the physical body, just as Sadducees did in the day of Jesus.  But many Christians have switched to Preterism because of the fundamental truth that all Scripture is true.  And, of course, I would agree."

  • Preterist Prattle - "If Preterism is true, which it emphatically is not, the saints of God would have ceased waiting for God's Son from heaven after A.D. 70. Such a postulate, whether expressly stated or implied, is nothing more than a confused set of tattdemalions(!) – that is, it is an attempt to dress a feeble and ugly theology in the refined garments of intellectualism... I suppose it is possible to affirm this unveiling, or full disclosure, took place in A.D. 70, when Jerusalem was destroyed. But we will not believe such an assertion, and are offended by the carnal boldness of those who take it upon themselves to suggest such a thing."

  • Plea to Preterists "If Christ's came back in A.D. 70 at the destruction of Jerusalem, where is the evidence? I know that all preterists believe He came back then but I have yet to see the proof that He did come back" - Board

"Preterism has been making strides over the last two years. Preterists believe that biblical prophecies were fulfilled in the destruction of Jerusalem in A.D. 70 and a spiritual coming of Christ at that time. As we approached the year 2000, preterism was taking a back seat to premillennialism. In the driver's seat were premillennial views that the end times could be near. However, after the hype of Y2K died down, preterism began to make gains. Enough so that Grant Jeffrey devoted a significant portion of his book, "Triumphant Return," to defending premillennialim; Dr. Larry Spargimino wrote "The Anti-Prophets: The Challenge of Preterism"; and popular author Thomas Ice produced a series of articles for "The Midnight Call" magazine on the preterist/premillennilist debate." more...

 

 

Debate On Israel's Identity

Landmark Israel Discussion I attended at my sending church in 1996 | 1. Ovid Need, Pastor of Linden Baptist Church - Linden, Indiana - PARTIAL PRETERIST - Israel is Jesus Christ, and all "joint-heirs" in Christ through faith, with no merit in one's nature. 2. Greg Dixon, Pastor of Indianapolis Baptist Temple - Indianapolis, Indiana - DISPENSATIONALIST - Israel is comprised of those "Jews" spread throughout the world, who are currently on "God's prophetic shelf," and are eternally distinct from the church. 3. Ted Wieland, Evangelist - Scottsbluff, Nebraska - CHRISTIAN IDENTITY - Israel is the literal (natural) 'seed' of Abraham, which is comprised solely of the Anglo-Saxon, Germannic Tribes and remnant of Judah. 4. Tom Brush, from Carmel, Indiana - SEEDLINE IDENTITY - Israel is the literal (natural) 'seed' of Adam, as opposed to the "Cainites," which are the literal 'seed' of Satan's intercourse with Eve. 
 

Jack Kinsella
What is Preterism?  Prophecy or History? - "The nation of Israel will exist – must exist, according to Bible prophecy to move forward. The preterist ends Israel’s story in AD 70 – Bible prophecy says Israel must be reborn ‘all at once’ in the last days. And it was. Not as Judah. Not as Zion. But as ‘Israel’. The name God said would be assigned to the Holy Land in the last days. The preterist view that God abandoned His covenant with Abraham and passed its provisions along to the Church makes God a liar."

Tim LaHaye
Strange Preterist Implications - "I believe it is important for lovers of Bible prophecy to be aware of these false views so that they not be caught off guard when they encounter such views. This is why I am informing you about this subject. After this month's introduction to this strange new fad within the field of Bible Prophecy known as preterism, I will continue a regular article about preterism. I will be dealing with the major arguments of preterism and why they are not biblical. Then I will conclude with a presentation of why prophecy should be interpreted literally and thus understood as future events to our time."

Last Hour
God's Terrible Warnings Against Preterism - "In order to justify the Preterist view, apologists either completely ignore or torture the relevant end-times prophecies, along with the known facts of history.  Preterists can cite no credible early church or historical support for a pre-70 dating for Revelation.  Further destroying their claim, and important church father named Polycarp, a disciple of John, wrote that Revelation was written during the reign of Domition."

James Lloyd
Preterist Apostasy - "They are all in serious error, for preterists are propagating a downright heretical system of prophecy that will lead many to ultimately embrace the Antichrist and his religious agenda."
Scoffers: Preterists and II Peter 3 "While the preterists love to quote verses that seem to show the New Testament writers taught that they were in the last days at that time, they almost universally avoid verse 3 of chapter 3 in II Peter.   "If you are abiding in preterism, you are enveloped in a profound spiritual darkness that places you in the soul destroying peril of following “another gospel.” If you are abiding in pre-tribulationism, you are in a deadly delusion and walking in such a spiritually wicked false doctrine that your path is directly heading towards the lake of fire"
The Culting of Christianity "Unfortunately, very few have recognized the enormous threat of Preterism and, as such, there are very few titles available exposing the subject. This might surprise the reader, but I would venture to say that for every published book criticizing Preterism, there are 50 promoting it. Thus, like a fireman throwing everything he has against a rapidly spreading blaze, I am even willing to distribute a book written from the erroneous pre-tribulationist Rapture perspective in order to attack this deadly false doctrine."

Jan Markell
 The War Against Bible Prophecy - "Recently a Christian publishing house advised me that he had learned that most Christian houses were dropping newly-submitted Bible prophecy books with a few exceptions. LaHaye/Jenkins will likely continue to sell as well as Mark Hitchcock through Multnomah, and sadly, Hannegraff’s false Preterism books..  Eschatology will finally be thrown on the ash heap of history. "
 Deception, Discernment, Delusion 2005 - Omega Letter "The newest "pop theology" on the block is Preterism which teaches that all Bible prophecy is history: It happened in 70 AD with the destruction of Jerusalem."
Evil in the Name of God - Omega Letter - "At the root of this is not just anti-Semitism which is the quick blame. It is also the pop theology (though it is not new) that the Church is the new Israel—Replacement Theology. When church leaders and members believe that Israel has no present or future role or prominence, it is much easier to demonize them, call them oppressors, and urge the above action. They have also tossed out eschatology and emphasized false “end-time” theologies such as Preterism—that all prophecy occurred in 70 AD with the destruction of Jerusalem. Without exception, false eschatological teachings disinherit Jews and Israel from the land and covenants made to them and put them on the level of prominence comparable to the Canary Islands."

Essh Geebor Mawkor
Preterism and a Sledge Hammer - "Preterists say that this generation means that the generation he was talking to must see all these signs. Preterist are weak in faith, thus forced like atheists to come to odd conclusions...  Well here is the verse that SLAPS then right UPSIDE their hard heads.  

J. Parnell McCarter
 A Reponse to Partial Preterism
A Critique of Gentry and a Second Critique of Partial Preterism "In this critique I will first outline some of the fallacies present in Dr. Gentry's book “The Beast of Revelation”, then examine its premises in light of those fallacies, and then make certain observations and conclusions regarding both of Dr. Gentry’s books and the larger topic of partial preterism."

Middletown Baptist
 Preterism and Matthew 16:27-28 "It is typical for those who are preterists to condemn dispensationalists for the way we interpret a handful of verses that they do not think we are taking literally (such as Matthew 16:27-28 and Matthew 24:34, etc.) and yet they seem to ignore hundreds of kingdom prophecies given by the prophets of old and say that they will never find any literal fulfillment. Any prophetic view which seeks to take a few passages literally in such a way that forces hundreds of verses to be understood in a non-literal way is suspect, to say the least." | AD70 Contrasted

H.L. Nigro 
Response to the Preterist Position as Outlined in The Last Days According to Jesus by R.C. Sproul - "One of the positions on the fulfillment of end-times events that is rapidly rising in popularity, both in scholarly circles and among “everyday” believers, is the preterist position.  "

Otto Nordgreen
The Problems of a Pre-AD70 Date of the Apocalypse - "The date of the Book of Revelation (Rev) has been as disputed as its authorship. The dates proposed for the composition oscillate between, on the one hand, the time before or during the so-called Jewish War (66-77 CE) and, on the other hand, the time of Emperor Trajan, viz. late 1st century (Aune 1997:lvii). Traditionally, the prevailing view has been that Rev was written sometime during the reign of Emperor Domitian (81-96 CE); more specifically (and in harmony with the ancient testimony of Irenaeus ) towards the end of his reign, viz. ca. 94/95 CE. "

NotDeceived.net
"In Like Manner" Not Always Interpreted the Same (By Preterists) "When speaking of something happening "in like manner" in Acts 1:11, we are told by James Stuart Russell that this "must not be pressed too far." But in Luke 13:1-9, the same phrase - "in like manner" - is used to defend the belief that the parousia of Jesus Christ occurred in 70 A.D. The inconsistency of this is almost too much to believe."

Graham Pearce
The Revelation -- Preterist Interpretation "Is it likely that God would provide a super abundance of prophetic guidance for those living around AD 70, and then provide nothing for the centuries ahead? This is barely credible. An interpretation that applies the Revelation only to the 1st century and the distant future, leaving 18 centuries or more of prophetic darkness cannot be accepted (cf. Amos 3:7). "

People's New Testament
On the Date of Revelation (1891)  Great Defense of Late Date Theory

Joel Porter
 A Backwards Look to Find the Truth - "Although the whore is destroyed by the beast and his ten kings, the beast and his army are destroyed at Armageddon, not the whore. The time frame for all the events appears to be at the end of the age we are living in. Although I am willing to be persuaded by the great effort by many people to fit this into the time frame of AD 70, I find that it just does not fit with history or what the bible says. We must go by the bible, everybody has a right to study scripture, but sooner or later we will find we need to get back to what the book says. "

David W. Roth
 Knowing the Love of Christ (1998) "To deny the physical bodily resurrection of both Christ or the believer is a departure from the faith"

Chad Rudolph
The Problem with Preterism "Preterists (akin to Antimillennialism, Church of Christ, Covenant Theology, Reformed Theology, Catholicism, Cults, 1/2 of Protestants) believe that all or most of the prophecies in the Olivet Discourse/Matthew 24-25 and Revelation were fulfilled when Rome destroyed Jerusalem and her temple in A.D. 70. Partial preterists believe that the 2nd coming, judgement and destruction of the earth are yet future (Rev. 20). "

Soul Device
 Do Preterists Spiritualize the Bible?

Larry Spargamino
 Was All Bible Prophecy Fulfilled By A.D.70? - "Even the Mark of the Beast is explained as a low - tech brand, used on slaves and animals. No microchip technology here! Christians need to be aware of those teachings that would turn "the blessed hope" into "the blasted hope."
Preterism and the Eclipse of Pre-millennialism -  "Pre-millennialists do not have to create doomsday scenarios. They already exist. Denials of the critical nature of our present situation will not make the danger go away."
The Anti-Prophets: The Challenge of Preterism

Dr. Michael D. Stallard
A Review of R.C. Sprouls The Last Days: An Analysis of Moderate Preterism - "Moderate preterism also suffers from inconsistencies as pointed out by the fact that radical preterism is sometimes called “consistent” preterism. While having its own problems, radical preterism does handle all of the day of the Lord passages in the same way. Sproul, as a moderate preterist, does not want to deny the literal Second Coming and future resurrection of believers. Therefore, he must do a balancing act with some of the passages supporting 70 A.D. fulfillment and some pointing toward the future. Exegetically and theologically he is attempting the impossible."

Dean Tisch
A Preterist's Presuppositions "Preterists make "THE stars" and other parts of the context to be fulfilled totally in 67-70 A.D. Preterist Kenneth L. Gentry, Jr., states their good figurative case for this more thoroughly than any other Preterist I have found. What do the Premillennialists do here? They make "THE stars" into some meteors [the parallel is in the Sixth Seal of Revelation 6:13] so that this earth is not destroyed when they think Jesus will appear before the Millennium. How are these two usually battling positions, Preterist and Premillennial, alike? Neither of them can stand the literal meaning of the language. "

Stanley Toussaint
 A Critique Of The Preterist View - "Moderate preterism believes large blocks of New Testament prophecy were fulfilled in the siege and destruction of Jerusalem in A. D. 70, but they also hold to a future literal return of Christ with a bodily resurrection of believers and unbelievers. This preterism has seen a strong revival with the Reconstructionist movement; it is essentially the view of reconstructionist postmillennialism. "

James Ventilato
 Preterist Time Texts Answered by Scripture - "Within the confines of this relatively short paper, the four key passages of scripture which Preterism (of all stripes) relies upon for the very life-blood of its theory will be taken up: namely, Matt.24:34, Matt.10:23, Matt. 16:28, and Matt. 26:64. As the Lord enables, some of the issues and insurmountable problems involved in its isolated (2 Pet. 1:20), pseudo-literal, eisegesis of these four key texts will be exposed, and the only scripturally tenable view of each passage will be set forth."

Tony Warren
What Does the Term 'Preterism' Mean? - "One of the weaknesses in this position is that they selectively interpret the word age/world [aion], and then arbitrarily make the supposition that there was an end of the age in 70 A.D. This does not agree with, nor explain, verses such as: Luke 18:30 The exact same word world/age. If that present time or age was before 70 A.D., and the age to come was Eternal life, then 70 A.D., being the coming age (according to their hypothesis), was the start of this eternal life. "
This Generation Shall Not Pass, Till All These Things be Fulfilled - "Of course we are well aware of the Preterist claim that the end of the age was in 70 A.D., but that is a Biblically untenable position. When will all be fulfilled? When this evil generation is no longer ruling with the prince of this world. In other words, when Christ returns! There is no age in between. No new age was occurred in 70 A.D. "

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