The Great Rapture Debate

By Richard H. Perry

Just over a year ago I had the opportunity to question and debate Dr. Thomas Ice on the timing of the rapture. Dr. Thomas Ice is the Executive Director of the Pre-Trib Research Center in Washington, DC, an organization founded by Tim LaHaye. He was hosted by Calvary Chapel in Athens, Georgia to conduct a Bible Prophecy Conference in December 2001. For the transcript of the debate between Dr. Thomas Ice (Pre-Trib position) and Richard Perry (Post-Trib position)

Date:

19 May 2003

Time:

04:17:52

Comments

I think this line of questioning seems to just muddy the water. Based on debates that I have heard so far, it seems that preterist debaters need to narrow their focus. For example, it would have been better for Mr. Perry to push Mr. Ice into pointing out where scripture says that the resurrection and the rapture are separate events. Mr. Perry directs Mr. Ice to other portions of scripture which then allows him to go off on bunny trails without ever answering the question. Just a thought.

Date:

21 May 2003

Time:

14:43:54

Comments

I agree, stick to a point and make it....then, move on.

Date:

28 May 2003

Time:

14:01:29

Comments

Mr. Ice nearly threw himself overboard when he admited that the Thesalonians and Paul both knew what was meant by the "departure", yet earlier he wants to contend that it a mystery. Notwhithstanding that he was admiting the first century context of the letter to the Thesalonians placing the "We" 2000 years in the past as it pertains to "We will be changed in the twinkling of an eye." The application was for THEM in the first century lest Paul be a liar.

Date:

30 May 2003

Time:

13:46:34

Comments

I was raised a pre-trib ,then I got saved, then I read the bible ,now I am a postie. Preconcieved ideas.......... Pastor Joel

Date:

04 Jun 2003

Time:

16:15:14

Comments

A very good point was almost made in the above debate: 1 Cor 15 is clearly about resurrection from the dead. Yet Paul wrote "in the twinkling of an eye WE shall be changed". He did not imply though that he expected all his readers to have died by the time this event ocurred. On the contrary, Paul and the other new testament writers wrote as though they and their readers had reason to expect to live to see this event, including in verse 51 of Cor 15. Doesn't this raise a question about the nature of the resurrection as well as the timing of the "catching up" experience? Another reason 1 Cor 15 completely disproves dispensationalism is that they will tell you verses 24-28 are about the new heaven/new earth. Yet they will also tell you that the rest of the chapter is about the rapture/resurrection of the saints, which in their timelines occurs 1007 years before the new heaven/new earth are established. But Paul nowhere in the chapter indicates that he is changing his topic or talking about 2 different events in God's plan that occur 1007 years apart!

Date:

23 Jun 2003

Time:

16:02:31

Comments

How about just sticking to the Olivet Discourse. Jesus was talking to that generation concerning the events that was going to take place. Also in Chp. 24:3 the disciples asked Jesus three questions and He answered them precisely. Just keep the discussion simple...Jamal

Date:

05 Aug 2003

Time:

12:34:59

Comments

I agree with Jamal's comment. I also think the whole debate is useless because the futurist position is against the clear words of Jesus Christ to the first century disciples... "This generation..."(Mt. 24) what could we possibly have to gain from Mr. Ice's ridiculous futurism that we haven't already concluded to be severe folly?

Date:

10 Aug 2003

Time:

14:59:46

Comments

I think that we can get too caught up in the rapture timing that we forget those around us that are perishing,( I;v been there) but concerning the times and seasons,brethren,you have no need that i should write to you.1 Thess.5:1. In Matt. 24 Jesus says --Take heed that no one deceives you.I take it that this is talking about christians, cause, non belivers are allready decived .John 3:18

Date:

12 Aug 2003

Time:

00:23:59

Comments

I'm definitely a preterist (100% about the second coming and establishing of the new heaven and the new earth) however, I have a problem taking the rapture issue as one that occured in AD70. Why? How do we account for Polycarp, bishop of Smyrna who was known as the disciple of John. How come he was not included in the rapture? My proof is his own words to the proconsul when he was given the chance to survive the death penalty by recanting and these are his words, "87 years have I served Him and He has done me nothing wrong, how can I deny my Lord?" Just a thought. Jonathan Calgary, AB

Date:

16 Aug 2003

Time:

06:02:44

Comments

All of Ice's arguments can be easily refuted. He has no new light on the Pre-trib position. Classic arguments by a pre-triber.

Date:

24 Aug 2003

Time:

23:12:43

Comments

Do you notice the explaination of the parable in Mat 13:40-43 bereans? which is gathered up and taken first? is it the righteous or the wicked? Thats right the wicked, I've found that the rapture of the saints from this forsaken world false in light of this scripture. I am ressurected now, I once was dead, I once was lost, but now I am alive in Christ. I am no longer scared of death, will I die yes, for we all die (at least once) and I would say that none of us will be ressurected again unto the corruptable. We have one life on earth and our reward follows when we are with Him, We must labour NOW on earth, Physicall death will come and we will continue our relationship with the father that we have here on earth. Whether we have one or not is up to us, but Jesus has provided the Way which we can come. Spread the Word! Daniel R T Walters yhwhmyjudge@netscape.net

Date:

18 Feb 2004

Time:

10:16:24

Comments

Richard Perry is absolutely brilliant in his questioning. One other Question I have posed to Tommy Ice,by e-mail,on this matter, is if the "judgement seat" of Christ takes place just after the "Rapture",and the resurrection of the "martyrs",as per Rev.20:4 only happens at the end of the Tribulation, and three separate passages of scriptures (like 2Cor.5:10)declare that "we all shall appear" before the "judgement seat of Christ, is there going to be a "second " judgement seat,for the "martyrs", as they are several years late for the one propagated by the "Rapture Guru's" I have not heard back from Tommy Ice on this last "Comunication",yet.my e-mail"sorens70601@yahoo.com" My new website, <www.doctrinalhonesty.org>

Date:

17 Sep 2004

Time:

13:45:01

Comments

Tower of Babel The Bible is the best single source for the Word of our CREATOR, but it is badly interpreted, in a few instances. One passage is completely overlooked by the denominations. The passage is Luke 19:41-44. The only non-Jewish writer of the Gospels quotes it. Appears to me that “spin” took place. In it JESUS predicted the destruction of the temple and the Jews and the children within them would be crushed. The temple was torn down in 70 AD and Jews thrown out of Jerusalem. Now many Christians (?) are trying to stuff the Jews down the Palestians throats. JESUS included “your children within you,” which makes the prophecy still effective today. One serious misinterpretation is Matthew 18:18. The Roman Catholics claim it applies only to Peter and his successors. Each of us is given our own keys to Heaven. It did not authorize the Catholics to change the Sabbath Day or to annul marriages. Constantine issued an edict in 321 AD changing the Sabbath. GOD joins a man and woman together in marriage and man is not allowed to separate what GOD has joined. GOD joins a couple when they agree they are married, we each have our own keys. We are created in GOD’S image. A passage overlooked is Matthew 14:15-16: JESUS tells us that HE will not forgive us if we refuse to forgive someone. Matthew 7:2l: We will be judged as to whether we did the will of our FATHER. From the beginning man was to leave his parents and become one flesh with his wife! How can a person forgive an original spouse if he or she marries someone else? In the USA today we are doing the same things, which prompted JESUS to predict the fall of Jerusalem, plus we have messed up the Sabbath Day. We say we follow JESUS but we don’t live by HIS instructions. The two leading contenders for President of the USA have serious shortcomings. One, because of preemptive war is a killer. The other an adulterer. Those who vote for either will be guilty by association In addition, to the above we (USA) are in the same position as the Tower of Babel in Genesis. That is, we are building an “eternal monument to ourselves.” By our own human strength we are reaching for the stars and at the same time, trying to tell the people in Iraq and Afghanistan how to live. The big club, method, does not work in the Kingdom of GOD. See the Beatitudes! Bob Robinson PO Box 161 New Sharon, IA 50207 641-637-4082 bbr7941@kdsi.net www.bbrpartyofone.org 17 September 2004

Date:

12 Dec 2004

Time:

19:32:49

Comments

In 2 Thessalonians chapter 2 the apostasy is the ''rapture of the church''? Give me a break. Bruce

Date:

06 Feb 2005

Time:

16:47:04

Comments

I think that brother Perry did a great job. It seems like brother Ice could not come up with an answer to brother Perry's questions, but allways had a paper or something that he was writing instead. Thank you, Paul

Date: 26 Oct 2005
Time: 16:13:27

Comments0:

RAPTURE WHEN???

 

I felt I should share this part of my revelation first in order that the rest would be sufficiently important.  For now I would like to deal specifically with the ingathering harvest of the church and not the first-fruits.  Many disagree with the term “Rapture” because it is not in the Word.  The Greek word “Harpazo,” meaning “to snatch or catch away” is translated “Caught up.”  Since this is what most mean when they use the term “Rapture” it is just a sectarian spirit that would have us argue over such things.  So that the majority will understand, I will use their terminology.  Most agree with the scriptures that the rapture and the resurrection happen “together.”  (1 Thes.4:16,17) For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven, with a shout… and the dead in Christ shall rise first; then we that are alive, that are left, shall together with them be caught up in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air.  (1 Cor.15:51,52) Behold, I tell you a mystery: We all shall not sleep (Die), but
 
(1 Cor.15:22) For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive.  (23) But each in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; then they that are Christ’s, at his coming.  Notice that after Christ’s resurrection, there is only one more resurrection of the righteous dead, “they that are Christ’s at his coming.”  Of course this is only speaking of permanent resurrections in the heavenly body.  Since there is only one more resurrection and rapture they must be at the very “end” or everybody who gets saved cannot be resurrected.  (24) Then cometh the end, when he shall deliver up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have abolished all rule and all authority and power.  (25) For he must reign, till he hath put all his enemies under his feet.  (26) The last enemy that shall be abolished is death.  Notice that the last enemy that shall be abolished is death.  The resurrection and rapture, which abolish death, are at the end when God will have abolished all rebelliou
  (3:20)
and that he may send the Christ who hath been appointed for you, [even] Jesus: (21) whom the heaven must receive until the times of restoration of all (of God’s elect) things (“things” is not in the Greek)…  When all are restored through the tribulation the Lord comes.
 
Here is that one resurrection again.  (Rev.20:4)… [I saw] the souls of them that had been beheaded for the testimony of Jesus, and for the word of God, and such as worshipped not the beast, neither his image, and received not the mark upon their forehead and upon their hand; and they lived, and reigned with Christ a thousand years.  (5)… This is the first resurrection.  Notice that the saints who were beheaded because they would not take the mark of the beast are in the first resurrection.  It was called first by John looking into the future from 96 A.D. after Jesus’ resurrection.  This tells us that there is no resurrection and rapture before the tribulation mark of the beast.  The second resurrection, called the second death in verse six, is after a thousand years and is for the wicked.  Since the first resurrection is also the only resurrection of the righteous, it must be at the end of the tribulation.  If it was at the beginning, the great multitude that is purified during the g
Jesus said he would raise up all of His people at the last day, which must also be the time of the rapture.  (Jn.6:39) And this is the will of him that sent me, that of all that which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day.  (40) For this is the will of my Father, that every one that beholdeth the Son, and believeth on him, should have eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day…  (44) No man can come to me, except the Father that sent me draw him: and I will raise him up in the last day.  Now lets be honest the last day cannot mean seven years before the last day.  (Job 14:12) So man lieth down and riseth not: till the heavens are no more, they will not awake, nor be roused out of sleep.  The resurrection cannot happen until the time when the heavens pass away.  (2 Pet.3:10) But the day of the Lord will come as a thief; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall be dissolved with fervent heat,
 
Noah knew when the Lord would come for him seven days before the flood.  He was given a sign to read in his day.  Some will argue that Jesus said, “Of that day and hour knoweth no one” (Mt.24:36).  The tense of the verb “knoweth” is present not future!  This spoke of Jesus’ day, not our day.  Jesus gives us a clear type so we would know when He would come in our day.  (37) As were the days of Noah so shall be the coming of the Son of man.  The days of Noah are only mentioned in Genesis seven.  (Gen.7:4) For yet seven days, and I will cause it to rain upon the earth… (10) And it came to pass after the seven days that the waters of the flood were upon the earth.  God said that “after the seven days” the flood would come and of course they would lift off.  Obviously those in the ark of Christ will be raptured “after the seven days.”  Those seven days represent the seven years of tribulation as in many other places.  The seventieth week of Daniel prophesies the tribulation, which will be
 bulation
, Rev.12:6 says, “the woman fled into the wilderness.”  The tribulation is a wilderness trial for the saints.  As we have seen they leave after that tribulation “at the last day” (Jn.6:40), the “day of the Lord” or “day of vengeance.”  The wrath is God’s judgment upon the wicked who were used to tribulate and purify the saints.  The Lord says, (Isa.63:4) For the day of vengeance was in my heart, and the year of my redeemed is come.  (6) And I trod down the peoples in mine anger, and made them drunk in my wrath, and I poured out their lifeblood on the earth.  Notice that the day of vengeance was also a year, the year of the redeemed, just like in Noah’s day, which was after the seven days.  This is a year of wrath on the wicked who have persecuted God’s people.
 
The rapture and resurrection are after the great tribulation, which is the last 3½ years of tribulation!  Mt.24:21 says, “Then shall be great tribulation” and verses 29-31 say, “After the tribulation of those days the sun shall be darkened and the moon shall not give her light...and they shall see the Son of man coming to gather together his elect...from one end of heaven to the other.”  The same verse in Mk.13:27 says, “From the uttermost part of earth to the uttermost part of heaven.”  Taken together, we see that one end of heaven is on the earth, the living, and the other is in heaven, the dead.  We see here that Jesus is rapturing and resurrecting His elect after the great tribulation.  After the tribulation the sun and moon being darkened signal the coming Day of the Lord or flood.  (Acts 2:20) The sun shall be turned into darkness, And the moon into blood, Before the day of the Lord come, That great and notable [day].  Notice that the sun and moon are darkened after the great t
 
Revelation 14 is the story of the tribulation and the day of wrath that follows.  (Rev.14:6) And I saw another angel flying in mid heaven, having eternal good tidings to proclaim unto them that dwell on the earth, and unto every nation and tribe and tongue and people; (7) and he saith with a great voice, Fear God, and give him glory; for the hour of his judgment is come.  This hour of judgment is the hour that the beast rules in Rev.17:12, which is also the last 3½ years of the tribulation in 13:5.  (9)…If any man worshippeth the beast and his image, and receiveth a mark on his forehead, or upon his hand, (10) he also shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God….  Notice that those who receive the mark are threatened with the coming wrath.  (11)…they have no rest day and night, they that worship the beast and his image, and whoso receiveth the mark of his name.  The true saints patiently endure persecution and sometimes death in the second 3½ years without taking the mark.  (12) Here
 
Then we see the harvest of the righteous after the tribulation.  (Rev.14:14) And I saw, and behold, a white cloud; and on the cloud I saw one sitting like unto a son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand sharp sickle.  (15) And another angel came out from the temple, crying with a great voice to him that sat on the cloud, Send forth thy sickle, and reap: for the hour to reap is come; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.  (16) And he that sat on the cloud cast his sickle upon the earth; and the earth was reaped.  Those who do not bear the fruit necessary to be in this harvest will be in the next.
At the time of that rapture/resurrection we see the beginning of a year long harvest of the wicked through the wrath of God.  (Rev.14:17-20) Another angel came out from the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle…  And the angel cast his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vintage of the earth, and cast it into the winepress, the great winepress, of the wrath of God.  And the winepress was trodden without the city, and there came out blood from the winepress, even unto the bridles of the horses, as far as a thousand and six hundred furlongs.  This flood of wrath involves the first real world wide war.  Revelation chapters fifteen and sixteen more completely explain this wrath or day of the Lord.  There we see that “seven angels having seven plagues, [which are] the last, for in them is finished the wrath of God” (15:1).  They had “seven bowls of the wrath of God” (16:1).  However the seals and trumpet judgments of Revelation are in the tribulation.
 
Jesus rebuked Israel for not seeing the sign of the time of his first coming.  After all Daniel gave them 483 years to the day of His birth but they did not read their Bible any more diligently than the Christians in our day because history always repeats (Eccl.1:9).  Like Noah, Daniel knew when the Lord would come for him seven days before the resurrection, so why didn’t they go in a pre-tribulation rapture if there was one?  Daniel tells us when the rapture and resurrection are to the day by giving a sign to be read in our day.  (Dan.9:27) And he shall make a firm covenant with many for one week (A sign to be read in our day.): and in the midst of the week (mid-tribulation) he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease.  As we saw this “week” or “shabua” is “a seven” of years that the beast makes a covenant for.  Notice in the “midst” of this tribulation covenant he causes the sacrifice of the burnt offering to cease.  The “midst” comes after the first 3½ years of the trib
 hen the
ark lifts off.  There it is to the day!  1260 days for the first 3½ years plus 1335 days past that gives us 2595 days from the time the covenant with many is made until Jesus comes for the resurrection/rapture.

The resurrection/rapture only appears to be forty five days after the end of the tribulation.  In Noah’s account the ark left forty days after the tribulation.  (Gen.7:10)…After the seven days...  (17)…the flood was forty days upon the earth; and the waters increased, and bare up the ark, and it was lifted up above the earth.  There appears to be a five day difference between the days of Noah and the days of Daniel but actually there is none.  God, who narrated Noah’s account, used solar time to typify the seven years of tribulation.  However when He gave Daniel’s account we can see that he was using their Jewish lunisolar calendar, which only corrected for solar time after every six years.  From the writings of Moses and the prophets we know that they had a 360 day lunar year.  Multiply this by 3½ and you get the 1260 days of the first 3½ years.  They adjusted to solar time after every six years by adding a leap month of thirty days, which would make the second 3½ years 1290 days. 

One more calculation before we include all of this in one chart.  Noah is not seen on the earth after the flood began until 335 days after the ark lifted off when he stepped from the ark.  (Gen.7:11) In the six hundredth year of Noah’s life, in the second month, on the seventeenth day of the month, on the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened. … (17) And the flood was forty days upon the earth; and the waters increased, and bare up the ark , and it was lifted up above the earth. … (8:13) And it came to pass in the six hundred and first year…  (14) And in the second month, on the seven and twentieth day of the month, was the earth dry.  (15) And God spake unto Noah, saying, (16) Go forth from the ark, thou, and thy wife, and thy sons, and thy sons’ wives with thee.  We see that in 375 days the earth was dry and they left the concealment of the ark and stepped on earth.  If we subtract from this the forty days, we see that 33

Thus we are given the signs to read in our day that from the time the covenant is made unto the coming of the Lord for His saints is 2595 days and His return with His saints 2930 days.  The figures of two witnesses above let us know that God included no fractions of .24 on the 365 day year.  The Jewish solar correction from 1260 to 1290 for six years changed their 360 day year in Daniel’s account to 365 days just as in Noah’s account.  Why no fraction?  We just had proof that judgments can effect rotation of the Earth, changing the number of days in a year.  The recent earthquake on 12-26-04 off the west coast of northern Sumatra in the Indian Ocean was said by scientists to have tilted the Earth by an extra 2.5 centimeters and sped up the rotation by some three microseconds.  We are told in Scriptures that the earth will be struck by meteors and that it “shall reel to and fro like a drunkard.”  These kinds of judgments could easily slow the rotation.  This would lengthen the days bu
 
Another objection that some might have is that 1260 days does not bring us to a perfect “midst of the week.”  The Hebrew word used here for midst is “chatsi,” and is not used in the Bible to mean “perfect center.”  For instance: “The son stayed in the midst of heaven.”  “Take me not away in the midst of my days.”  “The Mount of Olives shall be cleft in the midst.”  See what I mean?  However 1260 days does bring us to the “midst” of the lunar days in this week.  It also brings us between the lunar and solar corrected days.
 
The position in the tribulation of the leap month and the five added days are indisputable.  If the thirty day leap month came any time other than at the end of the sixth year of the tribulation the extra solar days that would be added would be more than five and Daniel’s days would not agree with Noah’s.  If it were at the end of the fourth year there would be fifteen extra days; at the end of the fifth year there would be ten extra days; at the end of the seventh year there would be thirty extra days in the beginning of the first 3½ years since the first year would have to have a leap month.  This narrows the timing of when the tribulation can happen.  If we could calculate according to the Jews original lunisolar calendar when the leap month/years would be in our day we could find out the time frame possibilities of the tribulation/rapture/resurrection.  We see that the criterion is there has to be a leap year before the seven years start and then one in the sixth year.  Although


We see conclusively that the saints will be here for forty days of the wrath, although they are not in the wrath for they are in the ark, which also represents fully abiding in Jesus.  (1 Thes.5:9) For God appointed us not into wrath, but unto the obtaining of salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ.  A type of this forty day preservation in the spiritual ark was the last judgment before the saints left Egypt, the Passover.  We will discuss this in depth in chapter fifteen.
 
We hear from many that the Lord will come “as a thief in the night” in a pre-tribulation rapture of the church.  After the judgments on Egypt (world), Israel was freed to leave at midnight (Ex.12:29-31), which is when the wise virgins left (Mt.25:6).  Then, as in Noah’s day of the Lord, the Egyptians were killed by a flood at the Red Sea.  Midnight for an overwhelmingly gentile Church is the end of one day and the beginning of a new day, the day of the Lord, when the world is destroyed.  Let us see when the thief comes.  (1 Thes.4:16) For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven, with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first; (17) then we that are alive, that are left, shall together with them be caught up in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.  (5:1) But concerning the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that aught be written unto you.  (2) For yourselves kn
 rding to
 his promise, we look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.  Noah lived holy, went through the seven day/years and escaped in the beginning of the wrath, and came down on a new earth for the first one was destroyed by the flood.
Everything will happen according to type.  (1 Cor.10:11) Now these things happened unto them (Israel) by way of example (Greek: figure or type); and they were written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the ages are come (Christians).  God will finish His born again creation on this morning of the seventh millennial day as He did with the natural creation.  (Gen.2:2) And on the seventh day God finished his work which he had made…  This morning of the seventh millennium is the seventh day for “one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day” (2 Pet.3:8).  A morning of a thousand year day could be years instead of hours.  What we will now prove is that early at the dawning of the seventh millennium, after seven years of tribulation, at the seventh or last trump, with a great shout, the saints will enter the New Jerusalem.  For proof of this consider these promises and the type that follows.

As we have seen; “the Lord himself shall descend from heaven, with a shout” (1 Thes.4:16), and “we shall all be changed… at the last trump” (1 Cor.15:51,52).  Notice that “all” will be changed at the “shout” of the “last trump.”  In an attempt to make a pre-tribulation rapture fit, some have adopted the oxymoron that there are two last trumps.  However, in Revelation 10:7 the only last trump, which is the seventh, is the time in which “the mystery of God is finished.”  (Rev.11:15-18) And the seventh angel sounded (last trump); and there followed great voices in heaven (saints), and they said, The kingdom of the world is become the kingdom of our Lord… And the four and twenty elders… worshipped God, saying… thou hast taken thy great power, and didst reign.  And the nations were wroth (tribulation), and thy wrath came (day of the Lord or flood), and the time of the dead to be judged (resurrection), and the time to give their reward to thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and t
Let’s see more proof of when this last trump shout comes.  Let’s look at a type, which is fulfilled on the morning of the “seventh day,” representing the morning of the seventh thousand year day, which is where we are now.  Joshua, which is Hebrew for Jesus, brought the saints up from the wilderness, representing the end of the tribulation.  Here they came to the city of Jericho.  Like heaven it was an impenetrable fortress for mere man to enter.  This was the first city of the Promised Land, representing the New Jerusalem.  Here, they compassed the city “seven times.”  “Times” are used for years of tribulation in Rev.12:14,6.  “A time (one year), and times (two years), and half a time (half year)” were “a thousand two hundred and threescore days” or 3½ years.  While compasing the city “seven times” they blew “seven trumpets,” representing the seven trumps of the seven years of tribulation.  Then the saints gave a “great shout” and the wall separating them from the New Jerusalem fell

Here it is again.  (15) And it came to pass on the seventh day (seventh millennium), that they rose early at the dawning of the day (That is where we are now!), and compassed the city after the same manner seven times: only on that day they compassed the city seven times (the tribulation).  (16) And it came to pass at the seventh time (end of tribulation), when the priests blew the (seven) trumpets, Joshua (Hebrew; “Jesus”) said unto the people, Shout; for the Lord hath given you the city.  From this you can clearly see that the rapture will come early at the dawning of the seventh millennium, after seven years of tribulation, at the seventh or last trump, with a great shout, as the saints enter the New Jerusalem.

The Feast of Trumpets has long been thought to be the time of Jesus return for his saints even by the pre-tribulation rapture multitudes.  (Lev.23:24) Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, In the seventh month, on the first day of the month, shall be a solemn rest (Sabbath) unto you, a memorial of blowing of trumpets, a holy convocation (Hebrew: “rehearsal”).  This feast is a rehearsal for the rapture/resurrection, which also happens after the “blowing of (seven) trumpets” during the previous seven years.  It is fulfilled on a Sabbath, which represents the seventh thousand year Sabbath day.  It is also fulfilled on the first day of the seventh month, which at least says that spiritually it will be very early on seventh thousand year day.  However the rapture/resurrection could also physically happen on the first day of the seventh Hebrew month Tishri, which is our September/October.  This feast is celebrated with joy and solemnity.  During the daily prayer service a ram’s horn o

ISRAEL’S EXPERIENCE; LAST EIGHT DAYS

In order to see this timing in the feasts of Israel I want to share with you a wonderful revelation that the Lord gave me.  There are four types seen in Israel’s experience that give the timing for the coming days: their Time in Egypt; their Time in the Wilderness; and two types of their Time in the Promised Land.  These tell the end time story of the last eight years.  We have already seen what I call the Panorama view in which these types tell one consecutive story when laid end to end.  The people of God are saved from bondage to the Egyptians, the old man; and were baptized in the sea.  Then they were tried in their wilderness tribulation to prove who would go to the heavenly Promised Land.  In this view it is clear that the people of God will not jump from Egypt to the Promised Land of heaven without going through the wilderness.
 
PANORAMA VIEW
ô‹ Saved/Baptized ›ô‹ Wilderness tribulation ›Ý‹ Heaven-ß
These four types in Israel’s experience can also be seen in what I call the Parallel View, which is another fulfillment of the last eight years for the Church.  Let me explain each individual type first and then we will see them in parallel.
1) [The Time in Egypt] - The judgments come upon the world in the tribulation as they did Egypt and then the saints escape to heaven as the wicked die in the flood of wrath at the Red Sea.
2) [The Time in the Wilderness] - The saints are tried in their wilderness tribulation and then escape to the heavenly Promised Land.
3) [The Time in the Promised Land] – In the tribulation the spiritual man, like the Israelite was, will be highly motivated and empowered to take the “sword of the Spirit, which is the Word” and conquer the carnal man in the Promised Land of his own life or soul.  (2 Cor.4:16)… though our outward man is decaying, yet our inward man is renewed day by day.  As the old carnal man is conquered we become the heavenly land of rest bearing the fruit of the spiritual man.  (1 Cor.3:9) For we are God’s fellow-workers: ye are God’s husbandry (Greek: “tilled land”), God’s building.  (Isa.5:7) For the vineyard of Jehovah of hosts is the house of Israel…  If we walk by faith in the promises we take the land and if not the old man takes it back and the fruit is corrupted.  (Mal.3:11,12) And I will rebuke the devourer for your sakes, and he shall not destroy the fruits of your ground; neither shall your vine cast its fruit before the time in the field (world), saith Jehovah of hosts.  And all natio
 o drive
the carnal man’s lusts of the flesh from their land will be reprobated.
4) [The Time in the Promised Land] – While physical Israel had a physical Promised Land, spiritual Israel, the Church, has a spiritual Promised Land.  While the land of this world will be destroyed the spiritual land of the life of the righteous will be healed for like their Lord their “kingdom is not of this world.”  (2 Chr.7:14) if my people, who are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.  The saints first conquer their flesh in the tribulation so that their personal Promised Land is healed.  Then they become in totality the spiritual man.  These, like those who go in the ark, are God’s heavenly land of rest for Noah in Hebrew means rest.  As Noah went through the seven days, so the righteous will conquer themselves in their tribulation.  After the tribulation at the last trump the world itself becomes their physical Promised Land.  (
In what I call the Parallel View these four types tell one complete story of the last eight years of the tribulation and Day of the Lord.  Imagine making three transparencies of these three types and laying them on top of one another so that all three can be seen at one time.  In this way we can see the full end time story.  As the judgments fell upon Egypt so they will fall on the world in the tribulation of the saints.  During this time the saints will be sanctified by driving the carnal man from the Promised Land of their lives so the kingdom of heaven is fully manifested in them.  Then in the rapture/resurrection they fully enter the kingdom and conquer the wicked in the Promised Land of this world in the day of the Lord’s wrath.
PARALLEL VIEW
ô‹         Seven years of tribulation         ›ô‹ Day/Year of wrath ›ß
ô‹ 1)    Judgments on worldly Egypt     ›ô‹ Death in Red Sea    ß
ô‹ 2)      The wilderness tribulation       ›ôÝ‹ Escape to Heaven ß
ô‹ 3) Saints conquer carnal man’s land ›ôÝ‹ Heaven in saints  ›ß
ô‹ 4) Saints conquer personal land and ›ôÝ‹ then earthly land  ›ß
What we can see from all of the types is that there is no pre-tribulation all fly away rapture.  God’s plan is to manifest His character of patience, faith, hope, love, and perfection in the saints through the tribulation trials.  (Rom.5:3-5 Numeric)… Let us also rejoice in our tribulations: knowing that tribulation worketh patience; and patience, approvedness (character); and approvedness, hope: and hope putteth not to shame; because the love of God hath been shed abroad in our hearts…  (Jas.1:2-4) Count it all joy, my brethren, when ye fall into manifold temptations (trials); Knowing that the proving of your faith worketh patience. And let patience have [its] perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, lacking in nothing.  Taking the aint’s, who are not yet saints or sanctified ones out of this world as unregenerate as most are now would defeat God’s purpose.
 
FEASTS; TYPES OF THE LAST EIGHT YEARS
From the first parallel type in which the Israelites came to the end of their bondage in Egypt and left, we can prove that the elect will leave the world after seven day/years on the eighth day/year.  There are three feasts of seven days, which represent the last seven years; the feast of unleavened bread, the feast of tabernacles, and the marriage feast, after which the saints “appear before the Lord.”  (Dt.16:16) Three times in a year shall all thy males appear before the Lord (rapture/resurrection) thy God in the place which he shall choose: in the feast of unleavened bread, and in the feast of weeks (see Caught Up To The Throne), and in the feast of tabernacles (Feast of Ingathering); and they shall not appear before the Lord empty (They had to come with fruit as do we.).  The marriage feast, which Jesus often used in typology, was also the last seven days.  Let us look at these feasts individually.
 
FEAST OF UNLEAVENED BREAD
After seven days (tribulation) of unleavened bread the people of God passed through the Red Sea baptism where the old man, the Egyptian, died and the spiritual man, the Israelite, came out of Egypt as a type of the world.  (Ex.12:15) Seven days shall ye eat unleavened bread; even the first day ye shall put away leaven out of your houses: for whosoever eateth leavened bread from the first day until the seventh day, that soul shall be cut off from Israel….(17)… for in this selfsame day have I brought your hosts out of the land of Egypt…  This feast was called a “holy convocation” or “holy rehearsal” (Lev.23:7,8).  This is a rehearsal of the last seven day/years in the world for God’s people, when they will partake of the unleavened bread.  Being “cut off from Israel” seems a serious penalty for leaven in your house unless you realize what this means in the Spirit.  Our natural man is of course the house.  (1 Cor.5:6)… Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump?  (7) Purg
 The mann
a, which was unleavened bread, ceased when they finished the wilderness tribulation and entered the Promised Land as a type of heaven (Josh.5:11,12).
After this last seven days of unleavened bread the Lord returns.  (Eze.45:21) In the first [month], in the fourteenth day of the month, ye shall have the passover, a feast of seven days; unleavened bread shall be eaten.  Hidden in Ezekiel’s words here is a type of the Lord’s return after the seven day/years of tribulation.  (46:1) Thus saith the Lord Jehovah: The gate of the inner court that looketh toward the east shall be shut the six working days; but on the sabbath day it shall be opened, and on the day of the new moon it shall be opened.  (46:2) And the prince shall enter by the way of the porch of the gate without…  The prince here is the High Priest, our Messiah, Jesus.  He will come at the end of six thousand year days of man’s works in the beginning of the seventh thousand year day when spiritually “the gate of the inner court” is opened.  Since the Moslem leader Saladin in 1187 sealed the Eastern Gate to keep the Messiah from coming the Jews have said that it will not be op
 ine enem
ies; Make thy way straight before my face.  (Mk.1:3) The voice of one crying in the wilderness (tribulation), Make ye ready the way of the Lord, Make his paths straight.

FEAST OF TABERNACLES OR INGATHERING
When the Israelites left Rameses they went first to Succoth meaning “tabernacles,” which is also a seven day feast, and then they left Egypt as a type of the world.  (Ex.12:37) And the children of Israel journeyed from Rameses to Succoth, about six hundred thousand on foot that were men, besides children.  Six hundred was also the age of Noah when he was leaving the world after seven days in his own Red Sea experience.  From Rameses to crossing the Red Sea out of Egypt was also seven days.  The Feast of Tabernacles, also called the Feast of Ingathering, represents the last seven years of tribulation for the people of God before leaving the world.  (Lev.23:34)… On the fifteenth day of this seventh month is the feast of tabernacles for seven days unto Jehovah.  (35) On the first day shall be a holy convocation (rehearsal): ye shall do no servile work.  Obviously these last seven days are a rehearsal for the final fulfillment of the tribulation when “no servile work” or the “work of a s
The interesting thing is how they celebrated this Feast.  (42) Ye shall dwell in booths (Hebrew: “tabernacles”) seven days; all that are home-born in Israel shall dwell in booths (tabernacles); (43) that your generations may know that I made the children of Israel to dwell in booths (tabernacles), when I brought them out of the land of Egypt.  As the Jews kept this feast when coming out of Egyptian captivity so did they when returning from Babylonish captivity by building temporary tabernacles from olive branches.  (Neh.8:15)…Go forth unto the mount, and fetch olive branches, and branches of wild olive…to make booths (tabernacles), as it is written.  The natural olive branches represent believers from natural Israel and the wild olive branches represent Gentile believers.  (Rom.11:24) For if thou wast cut out of that which is by nature a wild olive tree, and wast grafted contrary to nature into a good olive tree; how much more shall these, which are the natural [branches], be grafted

Christians too will spiritually keep this feast in the last seven days as they come out of spiritual Egyptian/Babylonian captivity.  (Neh.8:17) And all the assembly of them that were come again out of the captivity made booths, and dwelt in the booths (tabernacles); for since the days of Jeshua (Hebrew: Jesus) the son of Nun (Hebrew: eternity) unto that day had not the children of Israel done so. And there was very great gladness.  Notice that because of their Babylonish captivity they had not kept the feast since the days of Jesus who was eternal.  What does living in a tiny tabernacle that is only big enough for you and God bring to mind but a personal relationship with God.  In other words it does not signify having a relationship with God only through a local corporate tabernacle.  Sad to say, with many, apostate religion rules in their life more than the Word of God.  Not since the days of Jesus when those early disciples had a personal relationship with God which showed in thei

This feast is spiritually connected with the Feast of Unleavened Bread because during those last seven days they partook of only the Word.  (Neh.8:18) Also day by day, from the first day unto the last day, he read in the book of the law of God.  And they kept the feast seven days; and on the eighth day was a solemn assembly, according unto the ordinance.  The eighth day will be the day/year of the Lord, which is the “solemn assembly” of the saints in heaven.  The eighth day was also the day of circumcision to Israel when the flesh was cut off and they could no longer sow it.  According to the tradition of the Feast of Tabernacles after seven days of tribulation in a temporary, man made tabernacle, representing our physical body, it was torn down on the eighth day, representing death or rapture, and they went to their permanent house, the new body.  (2 Cor.5:1) For we know that if the earthly house of our tabernacle be dissolved, we have a building from God, a house not made with hand

This Feast was also called the Feast of Ingathering, which is at the great harvest, another type of the rapture/resurrection.  (Ex.23:16)… the feast of ingathering, at the end of the year, when thou gatherest in thy labors out of the field.  According to Jesus the field is the world and the harvest is the “end of the world” (Mt.13:38) or in the Greek, “consummation of the age.”  Notice once again that God’s harvest will be taken out of the world at the end, not seven years before the end.  The eighth day of this feast is called the “Feast of Conclusion” or “The Great Day” (Jn.7:37).  Who can doubt that what we are seeing in type is the conclusion of the trial of God’s people in a flesh tabernacle on the eighth year which is the great day of the Lord’s coming.  The eighth day is called Shemini Atzeret, and literally means the “eighth conclusion.”  It is not only the conclusion of the Feast of Tabernacles and the Fall Feasts; it is also the conclusion of all seven Levitical Feasts.  Th

THE MARRIAGE FEAST
After seven days of the marriage feast, God’s people will go to the groom’s home.  Jacob served seven years for each of his wives and he had a marriage feast of seven days for each of them (Gen.29:18-28).  This is a parallel revelation.  These seven days represent the last seven years or the seventieth week of Daniel, the tribulation.  Samson kept a seven day marriage feast for his betrothed but left without taking her on the seventh day so she was given to another man (Judges 14:12-15:2).  Jesus will feast with his bride in spirit for seven day/years after which they are escorted by the virgins to the groom’s home where she will legally be His.  This Hebrew custom is shown in The Zondervan Pictorial Encyclopedia of the Bible, 1976, Page 97 under Marriage.  My notes are in parentheses.
 
The bridegroom was the king for a week (seven day/year wedding feast).  During the whole week their majesties wore their festal clothes, did not work, and merely looked on at the games - except that now and then the queen joined in a dance.  Accompanied by his friends (John the Baptist was a friend of the bridegroom in Jn.3:29.) with tambourines and a band they went to the bride’s house (which is obviously on earth) where the wedding ceremonies were to start.  The bride richly dressed, adorned with jewels (Ps.45:14,15), usually wore a veil (meaning submission in 1 Cor.11:5-13), which she took off only in the bridal chamber.  Escorted by her companions (the virgins), the bride was led to the home of the bridegroom (heaven).
 
This is clear.  After the seven day/years of the feast, representing the tribulation, on the eighth day, which is the day of circumcision when the flesh is cut off, the Groom, the Bride, the Friends of the Groom, the virgins; all leave dressed in their new bodies to the groom’s home in heaven.  It will be just as Moses and all Israel left Egypt together.  Even the dead in Christ will join the procession.  “We all shall not sleep, but we shall all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump.”
 
That the Lord takes His people after the seven day/years of the marriage feast is clearly proven by Scriptures.  As we have seen, a great multitude comes out of the great tribulation to the throne of God.  (Rev.7:9)… a great multitude… out of every nation, standing before the throne and before the Lamb…  (14)… These are they that come out of the great tribulation…  Only after “the great tribulation” this “great multitude” that is made up of all who attend the marriage announce that the bride is ready and the marriage is come.  (Rev.19:1,7-9) And I heard as it were the voice of a great multitude in heaven, saying… the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.  And it was given unto her that she should array herself in fine linen, bright [and] pure: for the fine linen is the righteous acts of the saints.  And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they that are bidden to the marriage supper of the Lamb…  Notice that the marriage supper is in heaven after the sev
 
Let’s go back and look more closely at what will be eaten at the marriage feast.  Jesus said, “Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, ye have not life in yourselves” (Jn.6:53).  What does this flesh and blood symbolize spiritually for Jesus said, “It is the spirit that giveth life; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I have spoken unto you are spirit, are life” (63)?  Jesus’ flesh was the unleavened bread; the manna of the pure Word of God.  (51) I am the living bread which came down out of heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: yea and the bread which I will give is my flesh, for the life of the world.  (Jn.1:14) And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us…  The wine represents the blood of the life of Christ who is the Word.  (Lev.17:11) For the life of the flesh is in the blood…  Those who are obedient to attend will feast on the flesh, bread, and wine of the eternal life of Christ for the last seven days of the tribulation.
 
Although to a lesser extent this marriage feast has been served on earth since Christ first came, it is the last seven days that the majority of God’s people will feast on the pure bread and wine.  Natural Israel was invited to come and partake of this marriage feast in the Gospels but most had worldly excuses and failed to feast on the life that Jesus served.  (Mt.22:1-7) And Jesus answered and spake again in parables unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a certain king, who made a marriage feast for his son, and sent forth his servants to call them that were bidden to the marriage feast: and they would not come. Again he sent forth other servants, saying, Tell them that are bidden, Behold, I have made ready my dinner; my oxen and my fatlings are killed, and all things are ready: come to the marriage feast. But they made light of it, and went their ways, one to his own farm, another to his merchandise; and the rest laid hold on his servants, and treated them shame
 
All who have been sanctified through the feast will be ready to leave for the Groom’s home in heaven.  (Lk.12:36) and be ye yourselves like unto men looking for their Lord, when he shall return (Greek: “analuo,” i.e. “depart”) from the marriage feast (seven days); that, when he cometh and knocketh, they may straightway open unto him.  Analuo is not translated “return” anywhere else but is correctly translated “depart” in places like Philippians 1:23 where Paul speaks of departing this life.  The encyclopedia is clear that the Groom, his bride, and friends, “depart” from a marriage feast of seven days and is escorted by the virgins to His home.  (Mt.25:1) Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, who took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom.  A common false teaching is that the virgins here are the bride who leaves before the seven year tribulation.  That is not only contrary to the Hebrew custom I cited above from the encyclopedia but other experts
 
On the evening of the actual marriage (After the seven day marriage feast) the bride was led from her paternal home (on earth) to that of her husband (in heaven)…. covered with the bridal veil, her long hair flowing, surrounded by her companions (bride’s maids or virgins), and led by the friends of the bridegroom… some carried torches or lamps on poles (ten lamps).
 
It is clear here that the bride and virgins are two separate entities just as in all cultures.  After the seven year marriage feast, the virgins will accompany the bride to the groom’s home.  Edersheim in book V, chapter VII, explains the parable of the Ten Virgins with their lamps thus:
According to Jewish authorities, it was the custom in the East to carry in a bridal procession about ten such lamps. … Ten was the number required to be present at any office or ceremony (to witness the kethubah or marriage document).
Also here he says:
The ordinary Jewish marriage-procession is where the bridegroom, accompanied by his groomsmen and friends, went to the brides house, and thence conducted the bride, with her attendant maidens and friends, into his own or his parents home.
ô-7 yr. M. Feast-Ý-Procession to Groom's home.-Ý-M. Supper-ß
From the common Aramaic language in the time of Christ came an Eastern text called the “Peshitta,” which means “true” or “straight.”  A few believe this was the original language that the New Testament was written in.  This is proved wrong by Bible Numerics.  The Greeks used their letters also for their numbers and so the whole New Testament was written in numbers, which show perfect patterns only where the God inspired original words are not departed from (See my book Sovereign God, For Us and Through Us.).  God chose Greek so that we could always go back to the original words that were written and because it was common in the world and the Middle East it reached the multitudes.  The Peshitta text was limited to Middle Eastern culture and is used in the Lamsa New Testament.  It quotes Matthew 25:1 according to Jewish custom.  (Mt.25:1) Then the kingdom of heaven will be like ten virgins, who took their lamps, and went out to greet the bridegroom and the bride.  I am not trying to pr
 
This witness is against the false teaching that the virgins were the pre-tribulation rapture of the church.  As we have seen they are only a portion of the church.  (Mt.25:1) Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, who took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom…  (6) But at midnight there is a cry, Behold, the bridegroom! Come ye forth to meet him.  Notice here that they are getting ready to leave “at midnight.”  In the first parallel type above, after all the judgments on Egypt as a type of the world there came a final one called the Passover, which is a type of the final judgment after the tribulation called the flood or day of the Lord.  At this time the Israelites who ate the Lamb were spared and got ready to leave their worldly Egypt “at midnight.”  (Ex.12:29) And it came to pass at midnight, that Jehovah smote all the first-born in the land of Egypt… (31) And he (Pharaoh) called for Moses and Aaron by night, and said, Rise up, get you forth fr
 
Another possible objection to what we have seen is that some translations have the wise virgins leaving with the groom to go to the marriage feast, which was contrary to custom.  (Mt.25:10) And while they went away to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage feast (Greek: “Gamos”): and the door was shut.  “Gamos” here should be translated “marriage” because it covers the whole ceremony.  “Gamos” is used all through the New Testament to cover the marriage feast, the marriage procession, the marriage supper in the groom’s home and what westerners would call the marriage itself.  The text and the Jewish marriage tradition should decide which part of the marriage is being spoken of, not traditional rapture doctrines.  The text cannot be speaking of the virgins going to the marriage feast because the virgins have no official part in that.  Their only official capacity is after the feast in the marriage procession to the groom’s home where they ar
 
Notice that all the above feasts are types which are fulfilled during the same seven days of the tribulation, after which the Lord comes for His people.  A pre-tribulation, all fly away, rapture is impossible to fit into these types.  These feasts also give us a clear idea of just what God will be manifesting in those He will choose.  We saw a Marriage Feast where they partake of the Word and nature of Jesus; A Feast of Unleavened Bread where only that original Word will be accepted; and a Feast of Tabernacles where the relationship with God that the early disciples had will be restored.
 
Some falsely say that the tribulation saints were saved after the tribulation started because the pre-tribulation rapture had already happened.  This does not fit any of the types in Bible history.  Israel was saved when they ate the Lamb and were baptized in the sea before going into their wilderness tribulation.  (Hos.11:1) When Israel was a child, then I loved him, and called my son out of Egypt.  Likewise the church was saved before entering the tribulation.  (Rev.12:6) And the woman fled into the wilderness (tribulation), where she hath a place prepared of God, that there they may nourish her a thousand two hundred and threescore days (the first 3½ years).  Notice that just like Israel, the church “fled into” the wilderness tribulation from the beast after being born again.  They were already the woman before the tribulation and there was no rapture.  (17:3) And he carried me away in the Spirit into a wilderness (tribulation) and I saw a woman sitting upon a scarlet-colored beas
 
In the types and shadows did God’s people ever escape the tribulations of the Egyptian, Assyrian, Babylonian, Medo-Persian, Grecian, or Roman beasts?  Were they not crucified in those tribulations to be delivered of their apostasy?  History must be repeated for God said, “That which hath been done is that which shall be done” (Eccl.1:9).  Now we must “Let God be found true but every man a liar.”  The church will go through necessary tribulation because it is so far from the Biblical example given by Jesus and His disciples.  Instead of seeing Egypt as the physical world that we leave after the tribulation, we can see her in another type, as the spiritual world we leave when we are saved.  When Israel ate the Passover lamb, a type of salvation, and left Egypt, did they jump straight into the Promised Land or did they have to go through a baptism unto death in the Red Sea, be filled with the Spirit (1 Cor.10:2) and then go through the tribulation in the wilderness (1 Cor.10:1-13) to pu
 
The Lord told John, “write in a book and send [it] to the seven churches.” and it is still going to the spiritual seed of the seven churches today.  (Isa.4:1) And seven women shall take hold of one man in that day, saying, We will eat our own bread, and wear our own apparel: only let us be called by thy name; take thou away our reproach.  The self willed seven churches want to be called by the name of “Christian” but they are eating their “own bread” instead of the true Word.  They are also wearing their “own apparel” of the lusts of the flesh instead of obeying the command to “put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to [fulfil] the lusts [thereof]” (Rom.13:14).  Isaiah continues to expound on these women and the man they claim to be trusting in.  (Isa.32:1) Behold, a king shall reign in righteousness, and princes shall rule in justice.  (2) And a man shall be as a hiding-place from the wind, and a covert from the tempest, as streams of water in a dry p
  the wil
derness (tribulation) become a fruitful field, and the fruitful field be esteemed as a forest.  (16) Then justice shall dwell in the wilderness (tribulation); and righteousness shall abide in the fruitful field.  Isaiah continues this theme of a wilderness revival in the midst of the judgment of the nations.
 
Remember God said, “through many tribulations we must enter into the kingdom of God” (Acts 14:22).  (see also Jn.16:33; 1 Thes.3:3; 2 Tim.3:12).  If we agree with the Word when we come into the judgment of tribulations God will account us as righteous and we will prevail.  “Let God be true and every man a liar, as it is written, that thou mightest be justified (accounted righteous) in thy words, and mightest prevail when thou comest into judgment” (Rom.3:4).  Many do not believe that it would be righteous for God to bring the church through tribulation but according to God this is the only way we will be “counted worthy of the kingdom.”  “We ourselves glory in you in the churches of God for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and in the afflictions which ye endure which is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God to the end that you may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer” (2 Thes.1:4,5).  God’s people have always grown stronger thr
 
THREE AND A HALF YEAR TRIB?
There is a theory that there are only 3½ years of the tribulation left.  After all the end time seven year types we have seen you should no longer consider that theory viable.  This theory is that Jesus made the covenant but was cut off in the middle of the seventieth week of seven years, which would leave us with 3½ years yet to be fulfilled.  This theory is totally false.  You will notice in the following verses that Jesus was cut off at the end of sixty-nine weeks of years as history also proves.  (Dan.9:25) Know therefore and discern, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the anointed one, the prince, shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks (sixty-nine weeks): it shall be built again, with street and moat, even in troublous times.  (26) And after the threescore and two weeks (Which followed the seven weeks making sixty-nine weeks.) shall the anointed one be cut off…  Notice that after sixty nine weeks Jesus was crucified, n
 
Even though Jesus was cut off in the flesh He never ceased His ministry.  Instead it became greater for He ministered in His corporate body, as He planed, in order to reach the New Testament world wide corporate body.  He finished His ministry in spirit and through His disciples to bring in an elect remnant of Israel before the rest were broken off of the olive tree.  (Isa.53:10) Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin (cut off), he shall see [his] seed (His disciples), he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand.  Notice that Jesus saw “[his] seed” and “prolonged his days” after His death.  There are no “days” in eternity where Jesus went.  Therefore He “prolonged his days” in his seed as He said He would (Jn.17:21,22; 1 Cor.12:12; Mt.10:40).  His name, Immanuel, means “arm of the Lord.” is nothing.  The arm gives strength to the hand, which was and still is His disciples
The 3½ year tribulation theory says that the dragon kingdom for 3½ years in Rev.12 and the beast kingdom for 3½ years in Rev.13 are the same, which would total only 3½ years.  This statement is proven false.  In Rev.12 the dragon has seven crowned heads and ten horns and reigns 3½ years.  The beast of Rev.13 is different.  He has ten crowned horns and reigns for 3½ more years.  (Rev.17:10) and they are seven kings; the five are fallen (Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Media – Persia), the one is (Rome), the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a little while (dragon - 3½ years).  (11) And the beast that was, and is not, is himself also an eighth, and is of the seven (The seed of all seven are in the eighth for 3½ more years.); and he goeth into perdition.  Notice that the dragon is the seventh kingdom that lasts for a “little while,” 3½ years, and the beast is the eighth kingdom for 3½ more years.  This makes seven years for tribulation, not 3½.

Date: 11 Jan 2007
Time: 22:01:41

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I think that Paul must be really confused when he writes that they were already transfered from the control of sin to the kingdom of Jesus Christ in Colossians 1:13-14. If not then all who are looking for the kingdom are missing the boat completely. The kingdom did come. The Church of Christ born 50 days after the resurrection. I don't think Dr. Thomas Ice understands much about the old testament saints since he says they were not in the Lord. I believe he is forgetting that Jesus sacrifice covers even them, which means they are washed in the blood also so yes they are in the Lord. I notice he also makes Daniel 12n a literal resurrection, b ut Ezekiel 37 makes it clear that it can signify a coming out of slavery or oppression. The Jews did this through being baptized into the Lord in Acts 2 and I'm sure many more on naccount of Jerusalems fall since it was well known that Jesus prophesied of it's fall. Daniel 12 is concluded with Jerusalems fall in 70 A.D.